Drawing a fine line [ BASHING ]

Im not a political person by anymeans but this has been brought to my attention . Bashing a new word I learned the other day, to discriminate against a buisness or even person s character. I do believe if you have a great product let people know you have it and as time goes on you have developed a good reputation. This reputation makes the buisness owner feel proud that others think of them highly . This can be disrupted by the voice of people on the internet faster than the speed of light and be to say the least unjust. The other side of this coin can be a less formal more political way of bashing is to bash a product such as a chemical or tool rather than direct bashing of a companys name.So with out BASHING someones reputation while trying to find a superiour product where do we draw the line ???

Are you asking where the "line" is on this forum or just in general?

I will say this. When this bashing stuff goes on, its just not right! That is one of the reasons i really like this forum. I have yet to see cowardly remarks about others on here. If I have an opinion about someone or something, I go directly to the horses mouth. I dont hide behind a computor screen. I had somebody misrepresent one of my knives on ebay, I contacted him to tell him he listed it way wrong, And I got the filthiest response I have ever seen! So as far as bashing goes, I hope that evil never invades KNIFEDOGS!!! God Bless! Michael

BossDog said:

Are you asking where the "line" is on this forum or just in general?

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BossDog,

I would like to know where you consider the "line" to be on this forum, if you wouldn't mind. I think Kelly may be referring to a recent post I made where this was brought up to me by a moderator (and it's been eating away at me since...)

P J 234 said:

BossDog,

I would like to know where you consider the "line" to be on this forum, if you wouldn't mind. I think Kelly may be referring to a recent post I made where this was brought up to me by a moderator (and it's been eating away at me since...)

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I don't know what post you are referring to and I'm not going to go look. Our line here is shorter and closer than most.

The line is: No Drama and "G" rated. We don't "out" anyone, we don't bash anyone, we don't stir it up for fun, we don't have "healthy arguments" and we don't put with attitudes. We just get along well and we like it that way. It's very boring for those that like to mix it up online.

The moderators don't look the other way, they moderate. Unless you got warned, don't worry about.

P J 234 said:

BossDog,

I would like to know where you consider the "line" to be on this forum, if you wouldn't mind. I think Kelly may be referring to a recent post I made where this was brought up to me by a moderator (and it's been eating away at me since...)

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I know what you mean. I started a thread about someone accused of copying maker's stuff(From another Country) I found elsewhere on the internet. The thread was deleted. It really bothered me that I had done something wrong,even though no one really said anything about it. It bothered me enough I didn't really come around for a while. So I think I know how you feel.

I look at it like this.... There are enough sites on the internet, that if I feel the need to rant/bash/whatever, I can go there, get it out of my system and come here, relax, enjoy myself, and have fun with LOT's of friendly folks. Since that thread, I don't say anything that would be considered negative (Unless I'm talking about my own work) My work, needs work and I know it. With some things, it's not what you say, but HOW you say it.

To me "Bashing" is when someone says something like "Poco your work is so bad, I don't know why you even bother" when they could say something like "Poco your plunge lines need to look sharper and more crisp. Here's How I would do it...." I know my work is crude, the ONLY reason I post pics of them is so all of you can tell me what I need to do to improve. I really do want to make knives as beautiful as the pictures of knives I see here. But I have stopped "Production" because there are things I think I need to learn.

Just tonight Ernie posted a Tutorial, on my weakest area, the Plunge line. Now it's time for me to head back to the shop and put to practice what I have learned(I learned two things from that Tutorial By the way). Unlike some of you here, I have never had a shop, or worked in one, so some of this stuff is truthfully beyond me.THAT is why I like KD so well. KD is friendly, helpful, courteous .... kind of like the Boy Scouts.

Speaking for myself, If I can't say something nice, or ask for an honest answer, I just don't say anything. Don't get me wrong, I can disagree about something, but I can do it nicely. Right now I get frustrated with myself, Not with others here, so I try to be careful not to let MY frustration with myself show through. Especially when I'm not understanding what someone is trying to tell me.

Tracey has pretty much summed it up . I only try to give constructive critisim but when a product isnt good how do you politely let people know its no good. I call white white and black black and hope people dont take me to serious . I dont want confrentation and drama like tracey says keep it simple.Im not one to kick a dog when he is down . hmmmm thats good . You guys now know the basic guidlines. kellyw

Gentlemen, don't take getting a message of yours moderated personal. It happens. It's expected. We don't have the same rules other forums do. Ours are quite a bit stricter by design. We have to be if we are going to be "G" rated and business friendly. That is why there are moderators. I'd estimate 4 or 5 messages a week get moderated out of the thousands that are posted. That's pretty good. If one of your messages was moderated, consider yourself elite if that helps..
no worries.

I came back didn't I? I just had a guilty conscience. Once I got over that, it was all good. It is an "Elite" I hope to never be in again!! LOL I HAVE to be here!! How else am I gonna' learn???? Honestly if I had never come here, I would probably never have made a knife period! That would have been pretty sad!!

BossDog said:

The line is: No Drama and "G" rated. We don't "out" anyone, we don't bash anyone, we don't stir it up for fun, we don't have "healthy arguments" and we don't put with attitudes. We just get along well and we like it that way. It's very boring for those that like to mix it up online.

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2thumbs

Very well said.

God bless,Keith

I'm the reverse on this topic. I do not like a guy who smiles to your face and stabs you in the back. I would rather have a guy nut-up and say, "Chico, intellectually and hygienically I find you offensive." Hey, that I can deal with.

And what's the big deal? A forum--for it's most value--is an exchange of ideals and ideas. Here it is also a showcase of skills. Both concepts I find needed in my life at this point in time.

Lifting weights hurts, getting beaten in a debate hurts, having your heart broken hurts. We even laugh here about getting "kissed" be a grinding wheel.

The vacuum cleaner engineer Dyson once joked that before his product became popular he had failed at almost 5,000 designs. The man who created the Xerox printer was thrown out of 23 corporate offices before making a singular sale.

Now, I understand the moderators' task at keeping a forum polite and informative to attract competent members and craftsmen. A trouble-maker is easily outted, ignored or banned.

But win or lose, I'm here to grow, and growing pains hurt.

I understand the value of creative conflict. In person, it can be managed. In business I've seen the dangers of everyone putting "getting along" ahead of "moving forward" so I understand what you are trying to say here. I've also seen careers ruined because some one didn't understand where "healthy debate" ended and "career suicide" began.

"Healthy debate" on the internet spins out of control nearly every time. Critical comments, no matter how well they are intended, usually damage relationships on the internet as there typically isn't any other basis for the relationship. There are no other positive emotional deposits made in advance. Lacking the nuances of non-verbal communication, the written word takes on tones and meanings that were never intended and the receiver can't pick up these signals to soften the message or put it into a more constructive context. This is even if every one agrees to be an utter gentlemen up front. Then there are those do not appreciate conflict and don't want to be any part of that or to be associated with a group that thrives on conflict. A business comes to mind - mine and most of the other businesses that are associated with KnifeDogs.com.

I, for one, see internet conflict as tedious and annoying. I've been active online since the very early 1990's. This isn't the first forum I've owned and operated. When I built this place, the first rules put in place were No Drama and "G" rated. The other rules we have here are few and simply good housekeeping.

We intend to stand by these rules.

The Tourist said:

I'm the reverse on this topic. I do not like a guy who smiles to your face and stabs you in the back. I would rather have a guy nut-up and say, "Chico, intellectually and hygienically I find you offensive." Hey, that I can deal with.

And what's the big deal? A forum--for it's most value--is an exchange of ideals and ideas. Here it is also a showcase of skills. Both concepts I find needed in my life at this point in time.

Lifting weights hurts, getting beaten in a debate hurts, having your heart broken hurts. We even laugh here about getting "kissed" be a grinding wheel.

The vacuum cleaner engineer Dyson once joked that before his product became popular he had failed at almost 5,000 designs. The man who created the Xerox printer was thrown out of 23 corporate offices before making a singular sale.

Now, I understand the moderators' task at keeping a forum polite and informative to attract competent members and craftsmen. A trouble-maker is easily outted, ignored or banned.

But win or lose, I'm here to grow, and growing pains hurt.

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The Tourist said:

I'm the reverse on this topic. I do not like a guy who smiles to your face and stabs you in the back. I would rather have a guy nut-up and say, "Chico, intellectually and hygienically I find you offensive." Hey, that I can deal with.

And what's the big deal? A forum--for it's most value--is an exchange of ideals and ideas. Here it is also a showcase of skills. Both concepts I find needed in my life at this point in time.

Lifting weights hurts, getting beaten in a debate hurts, having your heart broken hurts. We even laugh here about getting "kissed" be a grinding wheel.

The vacuum cleaner engineer Dyson once joked that before his product became popular he had failed at almost 5,000 designs. The man who created the Xerox printer was thrown out of 23 corporate offices before making a singular sale.

Now, I understand the moderators' task at keeping a forum polite and informative to attract competent members and craftsmen. A trouble-maker is easily outted, ignored or banned.

But win or lose, I'm here to grow, and growing pains hurt.

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Well I think you can tell someone something without smiling to their face, and then stabbing them in the back. To use your analogy, To someone with B.O.... Instead of saying, "Hey buddy you stink like a Fecal matter." (Keeping it "G" rated) I can say instead, "Hey man, No one else may have had the courage to tell you.... But you might think about taking a little more interest in Personal Hygiene, You have some B.O. that needs to be dealt with."

When I was in the Army, one of the sayings that has stuck with me the most is this... "Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hades in such a way, that they actually look forward to the trip!" (Again keeping it "G" Rated) We thought that we could not tell our superiors certain things, and one wise old Sergeant told us that.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not the Topic, as much as the approach to the Topic. Recently there was some discussion about Ethics and other such Topics, that people can have differing Viewpoints on, some of which have the potential of being rather heated. Yet these discussions were carried out with aplomb. You could tell that some were biting back what they really wanted to say, in no uncertain terms. In some other forums this would have resulted in the thread being closed, and quite possibly someone receiving some type of disciplinary action, warning, suspension, or ban. Yet all said what they had to say in a civil way, and there was no need to give any disciplinary action at all.

That is what I was alluding to in my post. TACT - Think of it as an acronym. The Artful Communication Tactic. Proper use of TACT our Sergeant assured us, would allow you to say ANYTHING without getting in any kind of trouble. The better you are at it, the more you can say.

This is kind of like Vocabulary, in a way. The more you know, the less you have to rely on crude words.

BossDog said:

"Healthy debate" on the internet spins out of control nearly every time.

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I have to agree.

I was attracted to the "No Drama" and "G-rated" rules here from the very beginning, and the more I think about it, the more I like them. Just nips problems in the bud, as has been said.

One thing I've noticed on other forums is that rules or no, "certain" people get away with a LOT of frankly abusive behavior... then when a new guy or someone who's not in the "inner circle" steps up, they're branded a troll or a troublemaker. That gets old real quick, whether I'm involved in it or not. And believe me, I've been involved in it far too often Not once did it do me any good.

I think the KD leadership is doing a very good job of preventing that sort of foolishness.

pocomoonskyeyes said:

...You could tell that some were biting back what they really wanted to say, in no uncertain terms... Yet all said what they had to say in a civil way, and there was no need to give any disciplinary action at all.

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That's a really good example. I'm always happier when I take a minute to gather my thoughts and express them civilly, even when I still end up getting proved wrong!

A further note about "G-rated"... let's face it, if you want to view or post certain types of humor or uhhh... entertainment, it's not like you have to look real hard for a site to do so. I'm glad I can let my kid browse around here without looking over her shoulder, and many of our potential customers probably don't want to see that stuff either.

The only thing I wish this Forum had was a "Thanks" button. When someone like James says something, (Like above) I would hit the "Thanks" button, 'Cause I totally agree with what he has said!!

Thanks Poco!

The element that can,and often will prove a catalyst for catastrophe is
Ego.
Ego is like blinders on a horse:
take the blinders off,and your ability to see something from more than one point of view is improved.
When we're confronted with an issue that cuts a little close to home,
if we step away from the knee-jerk personal/emotional reaction,
take a moment and allow Reason to assume the wheel,
most often a train-wreck will be avoided.
Recently,elsewhere,I was venting and allowing an overload of 'personal stuff' to cloud my judgment,and influence what,where,and how I posted.
I found a number of folks dealing with similar situations,and,
Misery loves company so I dumped a lot of my emotional baggage on that forum,until a couple of people got fed up.
Of the ones who expressed themselves,there were 2 who got personal with their comments: one,who claimed to be my friend,jumped on the bandwagon with unprovoked insults and name-calling.Another (in a position of authority on the forum)brought personal slander into it.
I reacted in a way that shames me,retaliating with language and sentiment
that should have been left behind in the 7th Grade.
If I had left my Ego at the door,there would have been constructive ways to address the issue,but I allowed Emotion to propel me,without the guiding hand of Reason on the wheel.

Guys, I have nothing against a healthy debate and the need for decorum. I just want the message to be honest and informative. Now granted, most of our give-and-take here is lighter in tone, and not desperate or fatal. To be fair, I also come here for fun.

Taken in general, my comments were more global, as in the way I live my life, not in the participation of this forum. Still, I like to be told the truth so I can make a responsible decision.

The Tourist said:

Guys, I have nothing against a healthy debate and the need for decorum. I just want the message to be honest and informative. Now granted, most of our give-and-take here is lighter in tone, and not desperate or fatal. To be fair, I also come here for fun.

Taken in general, my comments were more global, as in the way I live my life, not in the participation of this forum. Still, I like to be told the truth so I can make a responsible decision.

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I think that is fair. I really want people to be honest with me. If people "Blow smoke up my 4th point of contact" when it comes to my knives, I'm afraid I will continue to make mistakes. I would like to progress, not remain stagnant. It doesn't matter if I never sell a single knife .... ever. I just want to be able to produce the best quality I can. My skin is pretty thick, I don't think anyone could ever match my Drill Sergeant, in Chewing me out. I think he is in some kind of hall of fame for crusty old Drills!