Here's a fun debate--a biker's knife.

T

The Tourist

Guest
For decades, the Buck 110 has been the stereotypic folder of hunters, craftsmen who work outdoors and bikers. In fact, it's one of the few knives easily recognized by folks who don't even like knives.

As good as it is for general purposes, it doesn't really meet the needs of bikers. However, for many years it was all we had. In very real terms a Myerchin B300 better in every way. But as you knife makers know, there have been lots of advances since 1964, the year the Buck 110 was designed.

Have you ever thought of making a superior product? If you were going to do the design in the modern day, what would you do? I have a few thoughts.

First off, lose the brass! Yikes, where do they think we ride, inside the Palace of Versailles? We have spring rains and muggy Augusts where I play.

The alloy for the blade blank is going to be a challenge, perhaps a compromise. We are used to the "high carbon, low chromium" varieties, but perhaps more chrome is realistic. After all, alloys like ZDP-189 are fully 20% chromium.

An idiot should be able to sharpen it. Like it or not, you don't have to be a member of Mensa to buy a Harley. 'Nuff said.

We must consider the "human factor." A guy who will buy a 1,000 dollar Weatherby and an even more expensive Leupold scope will search out a nine-dollar folder. They do it every time. Several years ago I offered Chinese Schrade folders (a 110 knock-off) as a gimmee for a major purchase, or as a direct sale for about seven dollars. I moved seven cases of them.

I don't think a Loveless drop point will sell. For some reason, most folks like clip-points unless we can figure out esthetics. For example Gerber offered two Gators. One had mundane steel in a clip-point, the other had 154-CM in a drop-point. Guess which one sells the most.

The sheath (if provided) must have a horizontal belt attachment. Shorter bike jackets either catch or do not wrap tightly against cold air. I'm not even sure if leather is the best choice. It does get soggy and retains
moisture against the knife.

As much as I like the Buck heavy folders (I'm more of a 112 kind of guy), the Myerchin product is superior in every way, and I would choose that instead.

But if you were Buck's designer trying to maintain clients, what would you build?

And more to the point, I'd like to see pictures of knives you have built for us demanding, cheap, honing impaired throttle jockeys!;)
 
A Buck 110 is probably the quintessential biker's knife. There's a reason for that; they're darn good knives that can be had for very little money.

The first quality knife I bought with my own money was a Buck 110, way back in '86 or so. As you say, it's a true classic, but has several drawbacks.

General design... the Buck 110 locks up solid. If you get it to close on your fingers, you're trying way too hard.

Weight... for a knife of this size, the Buck 110 is ridiculously heavy. I've bought and made fixed-blades that are both bigger and lighter. The first thing I'd suggest would be to forget the back-end bolster.

Brass... yeah, I agree that brass gets real ugly real quick. It's also heavy. Aluminum is much lighter, but some folks see aluminum and automaticallly think "cheap". I'm a big fan of nickel-silver but many collectors hate it, for reasons that are unclear to me. 400-series stainless steel is extremely popular for bolsters, etc.

Blade profile... The clipped blade is iconic. Frankly, I think it's dumb to have a swedge or clip that's not actually sharp, but you're right, a lot of folks just plain like the style.

Grind... I 'm not a huge fan of hollow grinds in general. I prefer a flat or mildly convex grind because it cuts just as well if not better, and is a lot stronger overall.

Blade steel... 420HC is Buck's standard steel. They have it treated by a serious professional (Paul Bos) who knows how to get the most out of it. It's not junk by any means. But there are many better steels available. One thing I've heard from outdoorsy types is, they wish there was a similar style folder with an "old-school carbon" blade that is easy to sharpen and takes a very fine edge. In a perfect world, I'd like to have a choice between 1095, D2, and CPM154.

Handle material... I have yet to see a Buck 110 or 112 with poor-quality wood on it. Kudos to them! Sometimes you come across one of their knives that has really pretty figured grain. If I were trying to compete with them, I would offer curly or birdseye maple, redwood, walnut, or other woods that are readily available, gorgeous and stable.

Fit and Finish... Buck does a darn good job when it comes to this. They've set a high standard, especially considering their knives are mass-produced. Any custom maker trying to offer an upscale Buck-style knife will have to take special care to improve on that standard, which is of course, largely the point.

Sheath... I'm not really qualified to address this, since I don't know doodly about making sheathes. All I can say is, the pouch my old 110 came with is still very serviceable. Your idea about a horizontal sheath makes a lot of sense, though.

Cost... there's no way a custom maker could make a Buck-style knife and offer it at the same price.

All in all, I'm still a fan of Buck knives. Even the chinese-made stuff they sell is pretty darn good for the price-point. But there's plenty of room for improvement.

Tourist, you may enjoy googling a fellow named David Yellowhorse. Among other things, he takes Buck knives and puts really handsome handles on them.
 
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I'm not a biker, but I am a fan of Buck knives. I bought my first 110 in 1972 or 73, can't quite remember...

I've seen modified 110's with the rear bolsters ground off (barehead) and re-handled. Lighter and better looking I think.

Drop point 110's are around, kinda hard to find though. There's even some Damascus blades out there.

Upgraded steel, S30V, is available as an upgrade on Buck's website: Buck Customs, as well as over a dozen scale options and nickel silver bolsters.

Here's a 110 with Nickel Silver bolsters, BG42 blade, and G-10 Scales. Came from Buck like this, not modified, was a limited run:

110_BG42_2.jpg



For lightweight heres a 560 (discontinued). Titanium scales with a 110 blade:

5601.jpg



Any Indian riders out there... Here's one for you:

110IND2.jpg


Mike
 
All great comments. And to be fair, most folks keep doing the "same old thing" because tradition is important. Yes, the Buck 110 has many followers, and it will for many years. But as I look around I find the 110 is more the tool of deer hunters, and less seen with bikers.

Here's my heavy folder. It's made from 440C and it doesn't have the drawbacks of wood, brass and leather:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/DSC00435-1.jpg

I also had a BG-42 Buck 110 from their custom shop. And even a few years back that knife cost me about 120 dollars.

Among the members here I am certain that we might pay 400 to 600 dollars for an EDC because such things are important to us. Most of the knives I see on the road are in the 25 to 75 dollar bracket. The idea being that if a knife is going to beaten to death within a year or two it's better to go the cheaper route.

Perhaps a better 110 is one that has the overall appearance of the same knife, but is made from materials of the present day. I admire the 110 for its history and what it has done for the world of cutlery. I'm just not sure I want to actually use one as my personal EDC.
 
I hear you Tourist, It's all a matter of preference. Personally, a traditional.. "same old thing" is fine with me. I fully appreciate that "Among the members here" a custom EDC might be the preference. $400 - $600 for a custom might be in the budget for some. The 110 is a tried and true knife, at an affordable price. Mike
 
believe it or not I actually found my 110!!!! someone left it at campsite. I cleaned it up and its one heck of knife. oh yeah it was still in the sheath haha
 
You're right about the issues of the debate, but I'd guess that "desire" might be more of a factor than utility. Heck, I like the look of all that brass and the shape of the blade, I just find fewer and fewer realistic applications for this knife as I grow older.

I've owned a go-fast Mustang and an F-150. I kept the truck.;)

And as for this 'actual use' concern, I'd go with the 112. You do have to admit that the 110 will remain an icon, and my guess is that I will own at least one more of them at some point. But the idea of a custom knife made just for me is tempting.
 
The 110 is utilitarian, affordable, traditional, and not custom.

I like the knife, I own several. I feel I've diverted this thread from it's original focus, that is, how might the knife be updated to appeal to the current market.

I had the opportunity to view a prototype of a barehead, drop point, bone scaled, 112 at the OKCA show last week. This might be just the upgrade your looking for Tourist.

Bootstrap... a found 110, can't beat that.

Mike
 
I think Buck did a great job with the Bravo 0850BKS-B.

I have had a 110 and a 112 since about 1977. They did my tour in the Navy with me and held up great.

Today's mainstream knife crowd demand pocket clips and one handed openers whether they are thumbstuds, SpyderHoles, or flippers. I think, if it weren't for Traditionalists, Spyderco's Endura would have made the 110s obsolete.

I think if the buyer is willing to pay more, the Zero Tolerance ZT0300 or the MicroTech LCC Auto with the hidden bolster switch are about the perfect knives for most bikers.

I don't see any appeal for a knife like the Myerchin with a Marlin Spike for most bikers.
 
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In line with the Bravo, another nice Buck offering, in collaboration with Tops is the CSAR-T. Besh wedge, ATS-34...
 
The Buck Strider is an nice endeavor that would EDC well for bikers also.

Well, I'm half way there...:p

I do have a Strider SnG. As you stated earlier, it has a pocket clip. And your comment touches on an important point.

If bikes change, why don't the products?

It's been a pet peeve of mine on many levels. The first thing a dentist or an insurance salesman does after buying his first Harley is to get a cheesy tattoo and then hit the "motor clothes" section. He spends literally hundreds of dollars on essentially a Halloween costume. I hate to shake him, but the 1960s are over. My warmest and most practical jacket is made from ballistic nylon.

So why does he want to look like old pictures of me? Well, that's for his psychiatrist to decide. But along with outdated clothes, tats and lingo, he decides to carry a knife designed in 1964.

Yikes, 2/3s of my personal knives are S30V.

Yeah, yeah, I get it. There's probably money at stake. But in most sporting goods stores right before deer hunting season the 110 is usually priced as a "loss leader." That is, a product designed to lure potential customers into the store for more expensive items. So is the 110 a profit stream after all?

It would be very refreshing to find commerce applied for quality and not quantity.

Edit: Perhaps we should ask this derelict biker what's good knife for the road. That is if you can interrupt him from his usual pursuits of talking smart, chasing women and sleeping late. Yikes, but on second thought, this guy will never amount to much...

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/DSC00439-1.jpg
 
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You'll have to read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". If you want the full effect, carry it into a biker bar!
 
Enlighten me, what kind of knife does a biker need and why?

Personally, I never owned saddlebags. For that reason, every item had to be light, portable and had to fit in a jacket pocket. Most Harley jackets have six to eight pockets.

(I used to carry a wrench that was 1/2" on one end and 9/16" on the other. At that time those were the most common bolt sizes on a Harley and you could tighten loose fasteners on the road.)

Same thing for knives. This one knife, the Buck 110, could be carried in a convenient sheath. It was good for stripping wire, defense, preparing food and basic camp chores (making stakes, whittling 'fuzzy stick' kindling, etc).

It was fairly durable, you could buy it anywhere and even I could sharpen it.

But to be honest--I carried it because everyone else did. This was before I learned that most times 'the herd' was clueless.

Rock said:
If you want the full effect, carry it into a biker bar!

But now we ask, "Anyone got any Ben-Gay...?"
 
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Personally, I never owned saddlebags. For that reason, every item had to be light, portable and had to fit in a jacket pocket. Most Harley jackets have six to eight pockets.

(I used to carry a wrench that was 1/2" on one end and 9/16" on the other. At that time those were the most common bolt sizes on a Harley and you could tighten loose fasteners on the road.)

Same thing for knives. This one knife, the Buck 110, could be carried in a convenient sheath. It was good for stripping wire, defense, preparing food and basic camp chores (making stakes, whittling 'fuzzy stick' kindling, etc).

It was fairly durable, you could buy it anywhere and even I could sharpen it.

But to be honest--I carried it because everyone else did. This was before I learned that most times 'the herd' was clueless.

Good answer. I owned one bike in my life and that was before I went into the Army. When I came home I was in no condition to ride anymore and my riding days were over for good.
 
Good answer.

BTW, that's another aspect of turning 60 years old, I'm done jerking people's chains. If I did something then I admit it, but if I wasn't there I don't lie about it for status.

When I retired the question was, "Who is the liar? Are you a credit manager posing as a biker, or vice versa?"

For the purposes of this forum, I am a tinker. Every nuance of cutlery was learned second-hand from Japanese history books, my engineer Father and my metallurgist BIL.

Having said that, on forums I've run into "MA sensei" who have never thrown a punch and supposed bikers who don't know what a 'mousetrap' is.

That's why I come here. That's why I want to stay.

I'm in the next phase in acquiring cutlery skills. In learning from people how knives are constructed I can better determine how to sharpen and polish more professionally.

That means I'm going to ask questions--lots of questions.
 
All you nonconformists look alike.

Do you mean all of us aging, suburban, gray-haired, married retired guys who worry about their rain gutters?

Yikes, I'm not special...

(Rock, sounds like you ride something.)
 
Another side to this coin is the fellas who happily drop many thousands of dollars on a Harley or bass boat, but scoff at the idea of any knife that costs more than $50. These same guys will often complain all day long that the thing doesn't cut well or hold its edge worth a hoot.

To be fair, there are production knives that are well-built and use at least decent steel, available for well under $100.

Why does a biker need a knife? Same reason I do, to cut things!! ;)
 
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