Question on "Period Correct"

My friend participates in Rondezvous which reinacts the fur trapper period from about 1800 to 1840s. Anyway....a long time ago I bought him a damascus blade at Smokey Mountain Knife Works, and I want to handle it now since he goes in for surgery Thursday.

I have some nice Ironwood root that I plan to use for the slabs, but I'm kind of lost on the pins. I'm assuming they used smaller pins of brass on period knives, but I can't find any definitive reference material. Can anyone help me out?

Imported trade knives were common to the period and many had huge brass pins similar to these by Jim Miller.

You can start at www.thefurtrapper.com for period relevant info.
I would say brass or iron. Pins could be made from old brass cartridges or any blacksmith would have pin stock or wire from horseshoe iron. I once saw a reenactors knife with twisted steel pins as cut from a barbed wire fence. All should be accurate to this time.

Steve

GOOGLE is the new wizard. If you can't find it there, you don't need it.

"Period Correct" means documented (a better term) and the most common material for pre-1840 pins was iron usually in a pattern of three or five about 3/32"-1/8" diameter. This info is based on the written word from the period as well as existing items.

The large ones shown above by Mike Carter are actually a smaller pin with a large washer surround on both sides and that particular style of knife is known as a Hudson Bay Camp knife and is of a post 1840 pattern.

Pins could be made from old brass cartridges or any blacksmith would have pin stock or wire from horseshoe iron. I once saw a reenactors knife with twisted steel pins as cut from a barbed wire fence. All should be accurate to this time.

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While it's true that there were make do items used, by far the majority of pins were made of simple wrought iron. As to using brass cartridge cases - definitely not PC for pre-1840 since metallic cartridges are almost all post 1860 and brass was not used much until the late 1870's/early 1880's, prior to that copper was used fro the case. Barb wire wasn't invented until the 1860's and was not used much until after 1873 when Joseph Glidden invented the twisted two wire with barbs barb wire we so often think of .

On the other hand since deliberately patterned Damascus was a seldom used steel on knives of the pre-1840 period, except for high end mostly Euro or Asian made pieces, and even when it was used in the West it was polished bright not etched to show the pattern, period correctness is going to be a bit problematic.
How appropriate an item is for a re-enactor of any period will be based on the particular re-enactor. Some of us are very particular about using only documented materials to a particular time, place and user; some base their gear on not only what can be documented but what was common, and then others are less critical as long as the item "feels" old/primitive, etc...........no stance is particularly better just different but it can make a difference to the individual......

Thank you for your detailed answer. I will try to find some wrought iron material for pins.

Chuck,
I am humbled by your knowledge, Great job!!!
I hope I wasn't misleading.
Thanks for sharing.

Steve

I will try to find some wrought iron material for pins.

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Mild steel will work Ok - several of the better "period" makers use coat hanger wire or nails of the right diameter of course using WI is extra nice......

Steve - you're welcome and the history and crafts of the 1700-1800's has been my life's work and passion so I do lots of reading and research even just for fun...

Great info Chuck. Thanks for posting. I am interested in making some revolutionary war period pieces myself for some reenactor friends.

Chuck I am very interested in "period Correct" Styles of knives. What are some of the designs that are current, that were used "Back then"? HB and Nessie I am aware of, as well as some of the "Bowies". Are there any others?

pocomoonskyeyes said:

Chuck I am very interested in "period Correct" Styles of knives. What are some of the designs that are current, that were used "Back then"? HB and Nessie I am aware of, as well as some of the "Bowies". Are there any others?

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I'm not 100%,but I seem to recall some very nice Dags in various knife magazines over the years,and all seem to fit that time period.
Mr.Carter shows one in that pic,sandwiched between the 'hawks on the left-hand side.
Also,I think there were some roachbelly designs floating around then.

when I read the first post, I was thinking I should point him to Chuck, then I scroll down and we get a nice history lesson from the expert himself..

I've uses mild steel pins a few times. I just got a 4ft piece of 1/8" mild steel from Lowes for a couple bucks.

Josh

For period correct patterns I recommend:
- "Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook" - has scale drawings of knives well dated from the 1500's to the 1800's.

- "American Knives, The First History And Collector's Guide"
Harold L. Peterson
New York: Charles Scribner's Sons. 1958

- "The Knife In Homespun America And Related Items"
Grant, Madison
York, PA. Privately Printed 1984

- "American Primitive Knives 1770-1870"
Minnis, Gordon

- "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution"
Teumann, George

These are just a start: there are many other books on the general time period/subject one chooses (i.e. Rev War, Mtn Man, Civil War) as well with several or maybe just one or two knives included, magazine articles, auction catalogs and websites, museum catalogs and websites all have good examples with time spent searching. I've been studying the subject for nigh onto 50 years now, but don't think of myself as an expert, just another student with perhaps more time in on it and a driving passion for the blades of the past.

A recommendation on steel - based on a couple of dozen metallurgical tests done on period blades I've read over the years as well as steel making info from the "day", the most common steel used is most closely imitated today with one of the 1065-1070-1075-1080 series. The blades tended to be thin and were mostly through hardened not zone hardened and generally much softer than is the norm today. Tested blades go Rockwell C from the mid-40's to the mid-50's. I prefer a bit harder dependent on the usage to around 56-58 RC.

Thank you Mr. Burrows!!

Arms and Armor in Colonial America, 1526-1783 by Harold Peterson is another good one

Firearms, Traps, and Tools of the Mountain Men by Carl P. Russell
Although I'm not sure it's 100 accurate

Most of the 1st person narratives I have read on mountain men just say (in invoices or bills of laden (lading?)), for example, "10 large butcher knives" or "12 small knives"
Commerce of the Prairies: Life on the Great Plains in the 1830's and 1840's by Josiah Gregg
Wah-to-yah & the Taos Trail: Prairie travel and scalp dances, with a look at los rancheros from muleback and the Rocky mountain campfire by Lewis Hector Garrard
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Or you can hang out in Bernard Levines forum
I learned a lot about "period correct" (and "modern marketing fantasy") knives there............

This is just a 1 time thing. I've been to one of his rendezvous and it's not my thing. I much prefer overland expo camping than sitting around in buckskins and drinking the hooch.

I was going to recommend a couple books you could check out of the library but Chuck beat me to it.

Chuck it looks like you have a larger library than I do. Anything Buckskinnig and Native American culture are my passion.

Larry