Heat treat oven???

KenH

Well-Known Member
Hello all, I've sure got the "hots" for a heat treating oven (wife wants SS kitchen knives and say "buy oven" if that's what it takes) and am looking at the KnifeDogs version by Paragon that USAKnifemaker sells. My question is the 14" depth. That will cover 90% (maybe 99%) of my knives... I would like to make a big bowie much like the Musso bowie - that's a KNIFE!! My question, using 1084 steel (or 5160?), could I stick the blade in the oven, using soft firebricks to block up the opening with just the tang sticking out - would that hold the temperature ok for heat treating the simple steels I'd use for this size knife?

Just wondering - I can always use my propane forge for heat treating simple steels I'm sure, but would be neat to use the electric furnace for better temperature control if possible.

Thanks to all for input,

Ken H>
 
I think that there is also a switch that will keep you from running it (heating the elements) with the door open and I really don't like to recommend, even suggest, that anyone disable a safety device. You might just want to stick with the simpler steels when making a large blade. One of the things about making large blades is having to invest in the large equipment to handle them.

We also have a different idea about the Musso bowie being a real knife but that's just my general prejudice against bowie knives in general.

Doug
 
I fully understand the concerns about defeating a safety switch. I though the safety switch was an option, but maybe that was on a different oven I saw.

On the Musso Bowie - oh, it's a real "Bowie", just VERY doubtful it was ever carried by Jim Bowie himself. Heck, his brother spent more time designing knives that Jim Bowie ever did - from all I've read anyway. Funny how we tend to make "heros" of those folks from way back then. Doesn't seem like any of them, Crockett, Daniel Boone, Bowie - or any of them where folks who took care of their family. These "heros" had much rather be out drinking 'n fighting than taking care of family. rant mode off<:)

I'll be doing a bit of re-wiring anyway to add PID temperature control to the oven. I've got a couple of PID controller that work good that I plan to use with the existing K TC in place.

Thanks for the input.

Ken H>
 
I'm not all that familiar with heat treating ovens, though I wish that I were, my impression was that they all came with safety switches. If get one that doesn't, don't ever open it with the power on. Making contact with a heating elements with anything conductive while electricity running through them can be dangerous. The small ceramic kiln that I had came with a caution never to reach inside of it with the power on. Maybe I should look at setting it up again to heat treat smaller knives at least until I can afford to get a regular oven and have the garage rewired for 220. A new roof has to come first.

What I think my opinion of bowie knives boils down to is that I don't like them, especially those seen in old Civil War photos. Plus I've seen too many knives of all shapes and sizes designated as such. When everything is called a bowie knife, then there are no such things as bowie knives.

I think that Crockett, Boone, and Bowie were made famous or infamous (I understand the Col. Bowie was investigated by Congress once) in their own time. What we see of them today is more a creation of Walt Disney and he never let facts stand in the way of how he wanted to tell a story.

Doug
 
It's important to subtract an inch or two from that depth. You don't want a blade tip directly up against the coils in the back and with foil, you'll need room to get the envelope in as well. Boss also sells the evenheat kilns and you can get 18" or more depth, even in 120V configuration. Extra length costs very little. The EvenHeat KH18 is nice. Long enough for your bowies. Heats to 2200F. 120V supply. Comes with either economy or RM III controller. Door safety switch is standard. (Doug's right - it should be standard). Worth considering.
 
Thank you for reminding me of the need to take a couple inches off due to the foil wrapping on SS blades! That means a single SS blade wrapped in foil - about 11' to 12" would be max (in 14" oven), and perhaps catty-cornered could squeeze a 13" blade in... maybe.

Hmmmm, let's see - the 8"X4"X14" KnifeDogs Paragon model I could get around $750 shipped, while it is 240vac, it's only about 2,000 watts (9amp at 240vac)

the Evenheat KF 18 10"Wx6.5"Hx18"D w/ Set-Pro control 240volts, 13amps, 3120watts would be around $1050 (maybe $1100) shipped

The Paragon KM18D Furnace W5.5"xD18"xH4.25" Sentry Digital 12key (only 120vac/2,000 watts) would be around $1300 ($1350?) shipped

Let's sum that up, KnifeDogs at $750, Evenheat at about $300 extra, and Paragon at almost $600 extra? I'll have to add the PID controller to the KnifeDogs, but that's no cost, just a bit of work, but I've only got a 14" depth. $300 extra for the 18" depth - and this is a "lifetime" investment.

Just thinking out loud here folks, anyone see anything I missed that I need to consider?

Ken
 
http://usaknifemaker.com/heat-treat...wx6-5-hx22-5-d-w-rampmaster-control-240v.html


This is the same advice that was given to me when I was looking to get a kiln. Go as big as you think you may possibly need. If you've got interest in making a Musso GO BIG !

Buy Once Cry Once ! An oven is one of the specialty tools that we use ALOT.

14" lets see, 14" minus 5" of handle gives you a 9" blade minus a little space on each end lets say 1/2" on each end now were at 8" minus any ricasso area.

Dedicated folder guys can get away with less real estate in their kiln no problem but for a fella interested in Mussos and kitchen stuff I think it'll serve you well into the future by going large.

I love my Evenheat and also believe the Rampmaster is a worth while upgrade over the set-pro. I've used some of advanced features to program for annealing and the 12 saved programs are nice to have too.

At $1149.41 it's only $100 over what you've got listed for the KF18 with Set-Pro.

That's my .02

-Josh
 
For the acual Musso knife, you will need the 22.5 sized oven, in order to stay away from the coils. I made one, and even with my oven, I felt it was close to being crowded. The Musso blade is 13 3/4" long. This one was made to the blueprint that Joe Musso drew of the original. 01 steel.

 
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I've been away from computer for a couple of days so have not had a chance to respond. LRB - Your Musso Bowie is AMAZING!! someday I hope to be able to build a similar copy for myself. Question - any idea why the leather spacer is between the guard and blade? I would have more expected to see a spacer like that between handle and guard... but what do I know<:)

Also, how did you attach the brass strip to back of blade - silver solder?

Musso-Bowie-Drw-Color.jpg

This is a good drawing someone made - I forget how it was and doesn't seem like they put their name on it.

The comments Josh made about space required for the SS foil got me to thinking, and I'm really thinking about the 18" version..... and the 22" is only about $100 extra..... Boy, a little here, and a little more there - pretty soon it starts adding up. I really think the SetPro is all I need for control - that's 4 different tempering cycles - without reprogramming - and from the video on EvenHeat site, reprogram is easy.

Thanks again for all the comments,

Ken H>
 
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Your drawing looks dead on correct. The leather is a bumper for using with a metal throated scabbard. Keeps the guard from clanging against the throat entrance. Pretty common on swords. One of the toughest jobs I encountered on the Musso copy was getting the S guard correctly fitted and shaped to the curves and dimensions of the print. The original was a sand casting. Took two tries at it with 1/4" brass, Then ended up using a brass bar 3/8" thick and filing 1/16" from top and bottom in the middle, leaving it full thick at the ends to shape into the tear drop tips. The original brass channel on the spine was soft soldered in place.
 
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Thank you for the info LBR - I had suspected that was the purpose of the leather spacer. Thanks for confirming -

You sure did a GREAT job of building your Musso Bowie - as you planned, it looks exact. Great job!

Ken H>
 
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