1gallon of Parks 50

Try Maxim Oil, even at 5 gallon plus shipping and handling, they are cheaper than almost anyone else.

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Is anyone interested in selling me a 1 gallon of Parks 50, or some other type of fast quench oil? I am going to be using 1095 and eventually W2. I absolutely do not need 5 gallons.
 
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good morning,
not trying to stir the pot, but why not try Wesson or Crisco? found this reference article while researching heat treatment of steel. http://www.industrialheating.com/Articles/Feature_Article/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000001097301 unless i am completely misreading it, it says grocery store vegetable oil works as well as any petroleum based quenchant. vegetable oil has the advantage of a much higher flash/ignition point and is easier to dispose of. just a thought.
scott
 
good morning,
not trying to stir the pot, but why not try Wesson or Crisco? found this reference article while researching heat treatment of steel. http://www.industrialheating.com/Articles/Feature_Article/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000001097301 unless i am completely misreading it, ....

Not completely misreading, but slightly misreading it as many, many others have done. The Totten research was done in search of an alternative to petroleum products for a base for formulated quenchants not a replacement as is. Things all look good for processing it into a reliable quench oil, but the research did establish quite well why the processing would be necessary due to the instability of vegetable based oils. First time tests worked great but the stuff, off the shelf, did not continue to provide the same results with repeated use. There are about three bio-based quench oils being produced now, that I am aware of, so there is promise there but there must still be some sticking points (probably cost of processing) that is keeping the industry from getting away from skyrocketing costs of petroleum bases ASAP.
 
Weatherman , Try and find some 20 weight non- detergent motor oil in 1 gal containers . It has nearly the same viscosity and is a darn good substitute for parks 50 .
 
Not completely misreading, but slightly misreading it as many, many others have done. The Totten research was done in search of an alternative to petroleum products for a base for formulated quenchants not a replacement as is. Things all look good for processing it into a reliable quench oil, but the research did establish quite well why the processing would be necessary due to the instability of vegetable based oils. First time tests worked great but the stuff, off the shelf, did not continue to provide the same results with repeated use. There are about three bio-based quench oils being produced now, that I am aware of, so there is promise there but there must still be some sticking points (probably cost of processing) that is keeping the industry from getting away from skyrocketing costs of petroleum bases ASAP.
thank you for making the article more clear. wouldn't vegetable oil be an economical alternative to a hobby level knife maker like myself who may only heat treat 4 or 5 knives a month?
thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.
scott
the old sailor
 
Weatherman , Try and find some 20 weight non- detergent motor oil in 1 gal containers . It has nearly the same viscosity and is a darn good substitute for parks 50 .

This might not be a bad idea. But what can you tell me about the motor oil and how it differs from the parks 50 or the Houghto-Quench K or Houghto-Quench 3440?

LRB why is it a bad idea? I don't want to create a shouting match. Just want to get a gallon of fast quench oil for 1095.
 
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I know it's a palin in the pocketbook to purchase a 5 gal bucket of Parks 50, been there. I've seen others use various other quenchants with mixed results. Peanut oil seems to work ok for a few blades, but over time breaks down and doesn't provide consistant results. When I purchased my quench oil, I took into consideration that I wanted the most accurate and consistant results when heat treating blades. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to purchase a quality quenchant. In the long run, it's an "Investment" no an "Expense".
 
Motor oil is about the worst oil to settle on for any kind of quench oil. Much depends on what steel you want to use. Parks #50 is good for all the 10xx steels, but maybe a bit fast for many others. If you must use an oil never intended or formulated for use as a quench oil, and you are quenching 10xx types of steel, canola oil will get you by, but it needs to be warmed at around 130° first. When I say, get you by, it will give you close to the desired goal, but just a tad shy of best. It will work very fine for all the 10xx steels except 1095. With 1095 it will only get you by. Commercial quench oils are formulated to cool steel at certain rates, and at certain rates to certain degree ranges after the initial cool. No one quenchant will do all steels to their highest degree of quality, because of different cooling speeds required for different steels. If you are using 1095, after entering the quench oil, it needs to cool from 1475° to under 900° in about .8 of one second, to be at it's absolute best. That requires a brine rather than oil, but the brine often cracks blades, so to reduce the cracking possibility, Parks #50 is next best at a cool down of just over a second. Canola oil runs just behind Parks #50. Good, and maybe good enough, but not quite as good as the Parks. If you are using a 10xx steel below 1095, the canola will do it for you.
 
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I have used non detergent motor oil as a quenchant many times , works fine give it a try ... It must be non detergent . Some motor oils contain polymers similar to high grade quenchents. It protects the steel under high temp ... 1095 blade quenched in 20 weight non detergent motor oil ,,,
 

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I know it's a palin in the pocketbook to purchase a 5 gal bucket of Parks 50, been there. I've seen others use various other quenchants with mixed results. Peanut oil seems to work ok for a few blades, but over time breaks down and doesn't provide consistant results. When I purchased my quench oil, I took into consideration that I wanted the most accurate and consistant results when heat treating blades. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to purchase a quality quenchant. In the long run, it's an "Investment" no an "Expense".

Yeah, I understand the investment part of the thinking. However, the wife doesn't and not to mention that I have been using vegetable oil in an ammo can for the past 15 blades ( about half a gallon). $120 for quench oil is really really hard to pull the trigger. That is why I am looking for one gallon.
 
Motor oil is about the worst oil to settle on for any kind of quench oil. Much depends on what steel you want to use. Parks #50 is good for all the 10xx steels, but maybe a bit fast for many others. If you must use an oil never intended or formulated for use as a quench oil, and you are quenching 10xx types of steel, canola oil will get you by, but it needs to be warmed at around 130° first. When I say, get you by, it will give you close to the desired goal, but just a tad shy of best. It will work very fine for all the 10xx steels except 1095. With 1095 it will only get you by. Commercial quench oils are formulated to cool steel at certain rates, and at certain rates to certain degree ranges after the initial cool. No one quenchant will do all steels to their highest degree of quality, because of different cooling speeds required for different steels. If you are using 1095, after entering the quench oil, it needs to cool from 1475° to under 900° in about .8 of one second, to be at it's absolute best. That requires a brine rather than oil, but the brine often cracks blades, so to reduce the cracking possibility, Parks #50 is next best at a cool down of just over a second. Canola oil runs just behind Parks #50. Good, and maybe good enough, but not quite as good as the Parks. If you are using a 10xx steel below 1095, the canola will do it for you.

If I can't convince someone to do me a favor and sell me a gallon of parks 50 for a good price then I will end up using Canola oil. I would just prefer to do it right the first time and not have a knife out there that was done sub-par.
 
I can offer two ways to go if you are truly concerned with quality. Buy the 5 gallons of Parks, and see if anyone in your area might want to share. Personally, I would not quench any blade much larger than a pen knife blade in just one gallon. A red hot blade transfers a lot of heat, and quickly in a gallon of oil. My other suggestion would be to re-think your choice of steel. 1080/84 is almost fool proof in getting a good HT, even with less than ideal equiptment, and will out perform poorly HTed 1095. It also has a less critical heat range in austenitizing. Something like 1450° to 1500°, whereas 1095 should not be taken over 1475°, or much under. 1084 has more manganese than 1095 that allows for easier HTing, and in general is more uniform in composition from batch to batch. Unless properly dealt with, the extra carbon in 1095 can cause more problems than is worthwhile dealing with. Especially for a beginner with limited equiptment.
 
Wick is spot on with his comparison of 1084 to 1095. In regular use, the difference between the two is miniscule, even if both have optimum heat treats. In a controlled cutting test, 1095 should outlast 1084 by a small margin, but that would not be readily noticable by most in general use.

I don't use 1095, but I do use 1084 from Aldo Bruno quite a bit for blades that are generally under 6". I quench in 1 gallon of McMaster-Carr's fast quench oil. I spoke with someone at the manufacturer that said it was designed to be used at room temp, so I don't have to heat it. I have never quenched over 2 blades per session in it, and after 2 medium sized blades, it's still just warm to the touch. One gallon is enough to quench 1 or 2 medium sized blades without any problem whatsoever. If I were going to be doing more than that, I'd get some more oil.

edited to add: I just read your thread about heat treating for hamon, and 1084 isn't the best steel for that. It'll follow your clay line pretty good, but it's hard to get much activity otherwise. Like was mentioned elsewhere, 1075 with low manganese might be a better choice for your set up.
 
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