Cast Iron

Rob Nelson

Well-Known Member
Dogs,

I have a couple slabs of cast iron I've been eyeballing for a future project. Would this be strong enough for bolsters, if I just cut and shaped it to size? And what would it look like sanded? I may just run a side on a few belts to see what happens.

Thanks!
Rob
 
It's pretty pourous stuff, Maybe on a field knife, You could season it with cooking oil or bacon fat just like Grama did!

cut out some piece's and try different sanding grits to see if you like any of it? Not my first choice, But some of the Tusuba "Guards" on Traditional Samurai swords are a cast iron I believe?
You may be on to something new!

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
Rob,
As Laurence pointed out, it is very pourous, and will rust from the moisture in the air and in Norfolk the salt will compound your problems, not saying don't use it. I would first do a couple of tests to see what kind of protection you can give it, bluing it maybe a possibility as well as Parkerizing. Both are chemical reactions, that are done fairly easily, just be careful with the chems, they are dangerous to the skin and eyes as well as the environment. I was also thinking that Nitre bluing would work as well but it's much more expensive. Hope this helps, Rex

Another thought, if you can be diligent with keeping it waxed, that will protect it as well! Just thought of that as I was about to send it!
 
Sounds like a good idea.
Experiment with it and see how you like it.

Porosity is really gonna depend on the individual piece. (There are many types of "cast iron".)
Sometimes porosity can actually provide a look that really compliments the project. Depends on the effect you're after.

You asked if it is strong enough? I believe so.


Rob
 
It is much too brittle. You would, or could break it, just setting pins in it, but you do what you think best. If it were a viable material for such as you propose, don't you think someone would already be using it? Save yourself a possible failure, and just use common cold or hot rolled steel, and know that there will be no problems with it.
 
I have seen soft iron fittings used , not sure about cast iron ? that is unless you cast it for a particular knife . It is very hard and brittle . But old radiators of years gone past were cast , and seemed very durable . I guess you could do a melt and alloy it with some softer metal .
But thats a lot of work . I would use soft mallable iron , makes great fittings .
 
I have seen soft iron fittings used , not sure about cast iron ? that is unless you cast it for a particular knife . It is very hard and brittle . But old radiators of years gone past were cast , and seemed very durable . I guess you could do a melt and alloy it with some softer metal .
But thats a lot of work . I would use soft mallable iron , makes great fittings .

So Wade?
The Tusuba I am thinking of are a Mallable forged Iron?
They looked like they were cast to me? I'm sure you know better, This thread had got me thinking about a few Tusuba that were on a set of Japanese Swords I dealt with a few years ago.

Cheers!

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
I have some Iron tsuba from 1600s and they are forged iron . nearly all real samurai swords hardware intended for for combat are iron . The ones made from non ferous metals are considered a merchants sword. It is possible that some are cast iron ! The Japanese knew how to sand cast . so it is plausable. A form a cast iron called pig iron was a by product of a Tatara Use. They did not throw too much away of anything , very frugal.....
 
I think the thing here is that the Tsuba's you all are refering to were made for that purpose. Poured to be a specific part. IMO, I think Rob should go for it, if it fails, so what, if it doesn't, he may have discovered something unique. I'm all for testing new stuff, trying anything and everything I can think of. The biggest problem with knifemaking is being original, with the limited parts it is difficult at best to come up with something a little more special than anyone else. Materials used would be the exception, just like so many have been using wrought iron for furnishings, there was a time when no one thought about using it for anything other than to decorate a driveway..(think wagon wheel there), now it is widely accepted to use it all over a knife. All I'm saying is give it a try if you think it may work, never let anyone say you can't do it or it can't be done. You never know what was tried or how it was attempted.

Granted we can all learn from others experiences, but if it makes you happy to try something un-conventional, WHY NOT!? If failure was something that hindered any of us we WOULD NOT BE KNIFE MAKERS!!!!!!
Just my thoughts, BTW Rob, I'd love to see what you come up with, Rex
 
I would also give it a try ! the only problem with cast metal parts especially iron , it would be ornamental in my opinion, as a nihonto strike could break a cast iron Tsuba . Where as softer iron ( as in wagon wheel) can take a good strike without much damage . Here is pic of battle tsuba made from forged iron . It is Kissing Dragons (rhu) signed by maker konemetsu around 1660. The soft metal ones ie:
copper , brass , were generally not used for combat . Although some were, probably out of neccessity
 

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The Samurai sword Tusuba I saw on these three Swords were Iron and I could see a casting line in the inside of some of the curls.
The blades appeared original but the furniture had been redone at a later date?

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
That is quite common to replace furniture on sword that has been damaged . Apparently it is cast . Is blade tang signed and rusty ?
Its quite possible that the replacments were lost wax cast iron . I have a wierd one also , it wont etch like carbon steel .... it turns white instead of dark ?? But tang is rusted and it is signed . So its difficult to say . Mine could be stainless steel blade with old koshirae ?
 
Something to keep in mind is that Rob may be dealing with "mystery metal".

This is akin to someone asking:
"Can I make a knife out of this file?"
"Will this old saw blade make a good knife?"
"What about this leaf spring?"

So the person asking the questions represented above are gonna get all sorts of answers on how to solve the mystery. All sorts of tests to provide clues in an effort to determine what you're working with.

Only instead of "will this steel make a good knife?", the question now becomes "would this cast iron possibly work for bolsters?"
So testing will still need to be done, just a different "type" of testing.
Obviously, one could forego the various HT testing, as anything related to that does not apply to bolsters.
I tend to think that, for bolsters, the primary factors for material sutability are 1.aesthetics and, 2.if it is suitable for the chosen method of attachment.

The "aesthetics testing" is easy. Simply polish it to the desired level and see if you like it. Take the polished iron and lay it it on your blade to see if it provides the look you're after.
Your method of attachment is the next step, and it really depends on the style of knife you're making. So this is tied in with "aesthetics".

We see all sorts of threads about peening the pins, making them "blend in", etc.
Then there are questions about soldering vs. epoxy, etc.
The first thing to realize is that, in this case, both peening and "blending" the pins should be way down the list in importance. You're gonna have considerable difficulty finding a malleable material (suitable for peening) that matches (blends, whatever) well with the iron bolster.
That's OK; there are plenty of examples out there where contrasting materials are intentionally used to provide good effect.
In this case, the pin should be used for purposes of locating or visual effect, rather than a mechanical lock. JBWeld is gonna be your friend here.


There are several types of "cast iron", and just like steel, each type is better for some applications than others.

Grey cast iron- This is the most common type. The engine block in your vehicle is made out of this. Your cast iron cookware is made out of it.

White iron- With the exception of a specialized nickel-iron alloy, this is the hardest of the cast irons. Thus, it is also likely the most brittle.
I have a friend who is a heavy equipment mechanic for a coal company. He says that white iron castings are used not for their strength, but for abrasive resistance without the expense of steel. Impellers on slurry pumps, bearing races, etc.

Malleable iron- This is white iron that has been annealed. It has properties similar to mild steel. Considering that it's "cast iron", this stuff is tough!
It is used considerably in the automotive industry. Crankshafts, axle bearings, etc.

Ductile iron- This is also called nodular iron. It is much like malleable iron, except that it is alloyed differently.
The limitation with malleable iron is that it is simply white iron that has been heat treated. So you're limited on how big of a part you can make. With nodular iron, the different alloy allows the same properties of malleable iron, but no annealing is required. So you can cast huge parts, and the desired properties will be present throughout the entire part.
I remember as a teenager when we would scour the salvage yards for Ford 9" housings for our weekend racers. If we found one with an "N", it was like striking gold!



Good Luck in your experimenting.


Rob
 
Laurence , if the tsuba has casting lines it is more than likely not Japanese , they are too meticulas thier work . these would be filed down
and smoothed over . Even the WW2 Gunto armory swords are well made . The tsubas are cast brass and finely finished .Your swords could be Chinese . I have one right now that fooled me . I dont get fooled too much . I spent 11 years in Japan after vietnam war and learned my forging techniques at that time . See sword pics I believe this is chinese reproduction made with stainless it etches white, extremely well made piece but not japanese ..... Bubba
 

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That is quite common to replace furniture on sword that has been damaged . Apparently it is cast . Is blade tang signed and rusty ?
Its quite possible that the replacments were lost wax cast iron . I have a wierd one also , it wont etch like carbon steel .... it turns white instead of dark ?? But tang is rusted and it is signed . So its difficult to say . Mine could be stainless steel blade with old koshirae ?

Bubba, a quick test to see if it's Stainless, would be to put a drop of Bluing solution on it where it wouldn't be seen, if the bluing takes it isn't stainless, if it does... it could be several things....
Rex
 
Done , the bluing does not take . I think the rust is artificial ....... sorry fellas I did not intend to butt in on your post with my pictures.
 
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Done , the bluing does not take . I think the rust is artificial ....... sorry fellas I did not intend to butt in on your post with my pictures.

I have never understood the term, "Stainles Steel", every one I've ever had has gotten stained one way or another. Stainless doesn't rust, so why didn't they name it "Rustless Steel"? The rust on it could have been transferred from some high carbon steel it had contact with, just a guess, happy to be some kind of help to ya! Rex

BTW, I don't think anyone minds your pics and if they do....there is something wrong with them!
 
I have never understood the term, "Stainles Steel", every one I've ever had has gotten stained one way or another. Stainless doesn't rust, so why didn't they name it "Rustless Steel"? The rust on it could have been transferred from some high carbon steel it had contact with, just a guess, happy to be some kind of help to ya! Rex

BTW, I don't think anyone minds your pics and if they do....there is something wrong with them!

Rex,
The term Stainless is correct. I tell this to customers at my shop all the time,
"It Stains Less That a Carbon steel, Not Stainproof or Rustproof etc..."

If a metal has any Iron/Carbon in it? it will oxidize if not cared for. The Chromium, etc resist's Oxidation, The carbon is the basis what gives get us the hardness we want.

Wade, I think you are right about that set of three swords being Chinese. There was always something about them that I couldn't put my thumb on? They looked very similar to the pics you posted about that one sword.

Thanks.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
Rex,
The term Stainless is correct. I tell this to customers at my shop all the time,
"It Stains Less That a Carbon steel, Not Stainproof or Rustproof etc..."
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Thanks Laurence, that is what I'm going to start calling it, STAIN-LESS! I knew that the carbon in the steel is what oxidzes and creates rust, BUT it has always been marketed as rust proof! A clever way for industry to fool the American public! Thanks Bro, Rex
BTW, are you going to BLADE? It'd be even cooler if you could make it to Batsons this weekend, we could meet up...but Santa Monica to Alabama would a lot of cash....unless you left now and drove 105 mph all the way here...you could make it...who needs sleep anyway?!
 
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