Edge Quenching 1095???

Lerch

Well-Known Member
Well the thread title pretty much sums it up, i was wondering if it is possible to edge quench 1095 steel or if it wont work due to 1095 needing to be cooled down so quick

i was gonna give it a try but i am not sure how to exactly

thanks
steve
 
Edge quenching can work fine with 1095. Any steel that is not air quenching can be edge quenched. Just stick it in with the point slightly down and rock it quickly to the back part of the edge. Put a rack or something in the quench tray to limit the depth to which you can insert the blade into the quenchant. About half the width of the blade should work. Just be aware that with a shallow hardening steel, such as 1095, that there is a maximum thickness to which the blade will harden. That will depend on the grain size and the manganese content of the steel. Meaning that even if you quench half way up the blade it might not harden that high.

Doug
 
Thank ya Doug, i will give it a try this weekend sometime, jsut have to rig me up a limiter plate of some fashion first :)

thanks
steve
 
lerch i just put some furnace cement on the spine in whatever shape you want and then quench tip down then agitate
edge to spine. that way i don't have to deal with the flare ups,and i can do things different then a straight quench line. but
thats just me!!!
 
thanks guys!!

yes i am using oil (Parks 50) and yes a have a fire extinguisher close :)

ya i have been using satanite clay for a a while now and while i do get a good differential heat treat i am trying to get a bit more of a even quench line, and also i am getting ready to start working with 52100 and i will edge quench it so i thought i might give 1095 a try

thanks guys
steve
 
thanks guys!!

yes i am using oil (Parks 50) and yes a have a fire extinguisher close :)

ya i have been using satanite clay for a a while now and while i do get a good differential heat treat i am trying to get a bit more of a even quench line, and also i am getting ready to start working with 52100 and i will edge quench it so i thought i might give 1095 a try

thanks guys
steve

Lerch, I feel that stopping you from making a very costly mistake necessitates me stepping from the sidelines and posting some advice. Unless you have the money to burn, I implore you not to edge quench in the P #50. Unless you received it as a gift you no doubt have a sizable investment in the Parks, and you will destroy it with edge quenching. Parks #50 has an extremely low flash point and when red hot steel is left above the surface in the fuel air mix zone it is like quenching into gasoline. If you survive the ordeal, the Parks will not, and be heavily oxidized and sooted up, basically throwing all of its reliably and predictable properties out the window. The only true advantage of the edge quench is the aesthetics of the hardening lines and the way to do it with Parks is with the clay method that Franklin suggested, this will get the entire blade under the surface and eliminate the hot steel and vapors combination.

Also the #50 will be a bit on the fast side for 52100. With the options your are exploring I would probably go with an inexpensive quenching oil substitute like Canola oil, it will have a higher flash point and if you burn it up it is no big deal.
 
Just remember clay coating is just another "tool" that can be used in knife making and you need to use the right tool for the right job. Clay coating will work fine to produce a soft, pearletic, spine with the simple, shallower hardening steels like the 10XX or W series or even 9260. It probably will not work with deeper hardening steels like 52100 or even 5160. For those steels you will need to use edge quenching to achieve a pearletic spine.

Kevin, thanks for the heads up on the Parks #50. I remember that someone posted about his misadventure trying to use it for marquenching but I had no idea that it could present a problem with edge quenching. Not that I'd be likely to ever try it. Water is too cheap, not to mention me, if I would need an aggressive quenchant like that.

Doug
 
thanks for the info

when i clay quench i am holding the tang of the knife out of the oil, would this not present the same issues you are talking about Kevin?? i have had a couple of flame ups but nothing to serious ??

if Parks 50 wont do it then what should i use??

thanks
steve
 
lerch when i clay quench i insert whole knife into the oil all the way. when i do it that way there is flames at all unless i pull it out to soon.
i have edge quenched with tranny fluid it was ok, but i don't believe i ever achieved full hardness with that or oils. so thats one
reason i went to the furnace cement got less warps and bends this way also. good luck, just try a few see what works for you.
 
I would advise against quenching the tang. You want that part of the knife soft for drilling pin holes, if nothing else. Allowing pearletic steel to form in the tang will allow the tang to be tougher and more ductile but less strong and brittle. The scales or handle block will supply more strength to the handle so you can get by with a little less in the tang. As far as flair-ups go, I've had no more that the oil burning just around the blade when quenching even when I've marquenched at 510 degrees. That's with peanut oil, which has a higher flash point. Having a lid to the quench tank and an oil rated fire extinguisher on hand is still a really good idea. Also, if you do have a tank of oil completely flash over, don't even think of using a water hose on it. Especially if the tank flashed over from being overheated. You might not survive the experience if it's in an enclose space.

Doug
 
Last edited:
I just want to underscore what has already been said. I hope no one minds. Edge quench in water with 1070-1095 or quench with clay in water or in Parks for dif hardening. I do water for 2-3 secs (120F approx water) and then into Parks. With clay (satanite or rutlands). I have done a significant number of blades this way, and only lost a couple, usually due to over heating and not even heating. If you are just going to use Parks with clay you can grind a little thinner and get closer to final size than you can if you plan to use water or water then Parks. In fact, you could use water then any oil, I just happen to have Parks in my big vertical tank and I usually do this with sword sized blades. Water gives a bit more hamon activity, but you grind some of it away since you had to have the blade thicker. Water gives just a bit more activity, I think, but it could just be that I am fixed on this. There is very little actual difference in hamon, but a tremendous amount of increased safety from losing a blade with Parks.

Clay is a great tool - and if anything warps, you can straighten it with a mallet on the anvil (especially the back part of the blade). I love that aspect.

let us see how things come out.
Kevin
 
Okay i gotten a bit confused or maybe just lost a bit with all the info so let me throw the info and question out there again just to make sure

So far all of my oil quenching experince has been with clay coated 1095 blades heated to 1475deg, i submerge only the blade and leave the tang out of the oil and agitate the blade back and forth in the oil. doing this i have had maybe 4 flame ups out of 20 blades, all of these only flamed up on the portion of the tang where a little oil kind of splashed up on it, i typically do not heat my oil unless it is very cold outside

I am wanting to edge quench some 1095 and 52100 steel, will i be at any more of a flame up issue edge quenching than i am clay quenching with the tang left out of the oil?? i do all of this in my garage and i keep a standard fire extinguisher close by and a towel to snuff out a flame as well. I am wanting to keep things as safe as possible since i am doing this basically in my home so if i am flirting with any extreme danger please let me know.

thanks
steve
 
Quenching with hot tang sticking out of oil- Yes you'll probably get some minor flare-up as you've experienced

Edge quenching- Your going to have FIRE. Not just a little flare up. Be prepared for the fact that the oils surface are may very well catch fire.

Be certain you've got a lid for your quench tank to extingush the flames by cutting off oxygen to the fire once the lid is on. You don't wanna go spraying your oil with a fire extinguisher. Do keep the extinguisher handy for a true emergency though.

A cake pan filled with Canola oil is IMHO a sufficient tank for edge quenching.

Thats my take on it - Josh
 
would a cake pan with canola oil be a real viable option for doing edge quenching on 1095 and 52100??? if so that would be great since a few people think i stand a good chance of ruining my Parks 50 oil by edge quenching in it

would that work and if so how would you put out flame ups in it??


thanks
steve
 
Get a piece of non-flammable material, like a large cookie sheet, that will fit over the cake pan if you have a flash over.

Doug
 
Okay, i will give the cake pan a try then,

should i use the canola oil or should i use parks 50 or something else??

thanks
steve
 
Ok, it has already been established that edge quenching with Parks #50 can cause problems. Canola oil may do the trick for you-or it may not. There's only one way to find out and that's to try it. If the canola oil fails then you are going to have to go to something else. The Parks #50 might well involve you holding the blade in a burning pan of oil long enough for the edge to quench and the spine to cool then dropping the blade in an covering the cake pan with a cookie tray. As mentioned that would ruin the Parks #50 in the pan. And then there's the flaming pan of oil. You could also try edge quenching in water (I can hear the dreaded "tink" as I write this). Another possibility would be to give up on the edge quench and go to something like clay coating with the 1095 to produce a martensetic edge and a pearletic spine.

Doug
 
Thanks for the info, sorry i keep asking questions, i still have pretty limited experince with all of this and i like to learn as much as i can before i try something, especially with anything potentially dangerous. i guess i will just try the canola in a cake pan and see what happens. I would be content just using the clay but i would like to get a more defined temper line than i have been able to get from clay coating so far.

thanks
steve
 
If your wanting a distinct temper line choose a steel thats going to make it easy to get what you want. 52100 would be your better choice here over the 1095 and the Canola should be plenty fast for the 52100.

If you want to edge quench some 1095 in canola keep the area you want hardened under 1/8" thick and you should be ok.

A couple things to keep in mind-

Most of the stuff we do is "potentially dangerous" :) IE- a finger or and eye could easily be lost with carelessness. That said your doing yourself a good service by asking questions first to ensure safety. For this conversation the danger here is fire. Keep the oil in the pan and you'll be fine. Panic and spill a pan full of burning oil in the shop and thats where the danger becomes very very real.

Take care- Josh
 
Back
Top