First time working with 52100

Lerch

Well-Known Member
Hi guys,

Well i just got in some 3/16" 52100 bar stock from Aldo and my plan is to start some large pig stabbing knives this weekend with it. I am planning on doing a WIP for anyone interested in here who might wanna see it

My question is about the heat treatment process of 52100, after doing multiple searches on the forum here this is what i have come up with

I am planning on cutting the steel and drilling and doing primary grinds until im about .060" thick on the cutting edge. Then i was going to normalize 3 times at 1200deg letting it cool to room temp in between each cycle. Then i was going to anneal by heating it to 1450deg and immediatly turning my Evenheat oven off and allowing it to cool slowly over night. Then i would heat treat at 1520deg for 8 minutes and quench in Parks 50 oil. The blades would satanite coated for differential hardening. I was going to temper first at 420deg for 2 hrs and then LN cryo treat over night, then double temper at whatever temp you all recommend.

can anyone recommend anything better to do or if i am way off base on any step
here???

thanks
steve
 
Steve, here is how I work Aldo's 52100. I grind it to 120 grit, thermal cycle 2 or 3 times @ 1250-1275 to relieve stress & refine grain. I then Austenitize @ 1475 & soak approx. 10 minutes and quench. I would start my temper @ 400 and work up to what gives the best results for your equipment and use. 400 should give you a HRC of 59-60. I would skip the annealing step and go straight to hardening. I think you're gonna like Aldo's 52100, its good stuff. Hope this helps. And I'll be looking for the WIP.
 
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What Darrin said. 52100 can be a real PITA or real simple. I put them in the preheated evenheat at 1475 - 15 minutes (5 to reach temp and 10 to soak) - quench in fast oil (I use Haughton Quench K) and I'd start the temper at 400 too. I don't think cryo will help 52100, though it probably won't hurt after first temper either. Can't help you with the differential temper. I'm not sure you need the thermal cycling for stock removal, but it won't hurt. I believe you'd need higher temperatures for grain refinement - which again is probably not required for Aldo's stock. I know some of the specs say as high as 1550F. In my limited experience, they are wrong. I wound up triple quenching blades just to get something useable from the high temps. On Kevin Cashen's advice, I started soaking longer and lower and it just plain works!

Rob!
 
I am also using these temps and times on the advice of Kevin Cashen and Rob is right, it works. By the way Rob, how high would the temp. have to be to refine the grain? I broke a piece and the grain looked fine. From now on I may just do one 1250 cycle for a stress relief. Thanks in advance for your answer.
 
Darrin, I'm sure not going to claim any carbon / tool heat treating knowledge as my own, but I think those 1200 temps are more for stress relief than grain refinement. I think the grain refinement comes from normalizing which, IIRC involves three declining heats starting from about 1600F. I refer the reader the master. :) http://www.cashenblades.com/heattreatment.html

Rob!
 
Grain refinement requires phase change and you can 't get phase change without at least exceeding the lower critical temperature and upper critical would be better. Don't confuse normalization with austinizing the steel for quenching. Those temperature ranges are different, especially when dealing with a hypereutectic steel like 52100. With a steel like that, unlike hypoeutectic or eutectic, you want to austinize between the A1 and the Acm points with a soak to dissolve the carbon into the austinite prior to quenching.

Doug
 
400 temper and you are only getting 59-60? Sounds like you might not be soaking for long enough. Kevin Cashen was getting as quenched hardness of 67 at 1475 with salt and even using an oven, I would think that you should be able to get 66. I recall Charles Ochs getting 59 from edge wuanching quickly in water and tempering at 500 in a toaster oven on his video.
Steve, here is how I work Aldo's 52100. I grind it to 120 grit, thermal cycle 2 or 3 times @ 1250-1275 to relieve stress & refine grain. I then Austenitize @ 1475 & soak approx. 10 minutes and quench. I would start my temper @ 400 and work up to what gives the best results for your equipment and use. 400 should give you a HRC of 59-60. I would skip the annealing step and go straight to hardening. I think you're gonna like Aldo's 52100, its good stuff. Hope this helps. And I'll be looking for the WIP.
 
400 temper and you are only getting 59-60? Sounds like you might not be soaking for long enough. Kevin Cashen was getting as quenched hardness of 67 at 1475 with salt and even using an oven, I would think that you should be able to get 66. I recall Charles Ochs getting 59 from edge wuanching quickly in water and tempering at 500 in a toaster oven on his video. Mr. Cashen also says that you should NOT attempt to slow cool anneal steel like 52100.
Steve, here is how I work Aldo's 52100. I grind it to 120 grit, thermal cycle 2 or 3 times @ 1250-1275 to relieve stress & refine grain. I then Austenitize @ 1475 & soak approx. 10 minutes and quench. I would start my temper @ 400 and work up to what gives the best results for your equipment and use. 400 should give you a HRC of 59-60. I would skip the annealing step and go straight to hardening. I think you're gonna like Aldo's 52100, its good stuff. Hope this helps. And I'll be looking for the WIP.
 
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