I have to ask a question on Canola Oil

C Craft

Well-Known Member
This question arose out of a discussion I was having with a fellow knife maker. I was just discussing the purchase of Parks 50 I recently made and he was saying money was tight and he was going to have to stay with Canola Oil. That is when this question came up.

How stable is Canola Oil when it comes to longevity? Let me rephrase that as too what was told to me and I have no clue if it is true or not, so don't kill the one posing the question!

The fellow maker I was talking to said something about Canola not being real cheap either and that's when I said something about and to my understanding there is the storage problem. I was told here in Florida where the summers are killers at time and there is constant heat and humidity. To get long term use-age of Canola oil it needs to be stored in a refrigerated area, when not in use. In other words it can't set in a unairconditioned garage in the heat for long before it goes rancid!:what!:

So is there truth to this?

Or is another urban myth that has gotten started. After I repeated this to my fellow maker I sit back and said I am not sure how much truth there is too that. And it has been on my mind every since!:les:

Anyone got a tank of Canola that has been sitting for long periods of time in your hot garage?
 
Sure do.

I never use it but I've got a cake pan filled with canola sitting on my HT bench for roughly 2 1/2 years.

My question to you is how do tell if it's rancid ????

I surely ain't gonna taste it ! :3:

The cost benefit is that I bought 2 gallons of canola at walmart for $15 vs $185 for Parks with shipping. That fit my needs at the time as I had just shelled out for the Evenheat and couldn't swing the Parks financially.

Now that you ordered the Parks it's kinda a mute point but thought I'd mention that my quenching oil was one of the cheapest things in the shop, ROTFL !

-Josh
 
Hey Josh,believe me if it was rancid you would smell it, if it's anything like rancid vegetable oil!:15: You would be looking for that dead rat in your garage.:what!:

Thanks for the info. Sounds like what I had heard is another of those urban myths!!!!!!!!

I can tell my buddy that it doesn't need to be refrigerated when not in use! That will make his day!

I have wondered about that since it was told too me, almost a year ago, and when we talked about it recently.............. well it brought back that same ole question again. I mean it really didn't make sense, as you would have to almost have another old fridge to store it in. Because I can't see Mama being happy about me dragging a dirty ole quench can in and putting it in the fridge, if you know what I mean!!!!!!!!!:les:
 
Last I saw on canola was that if you use it for quenching it should be changed every year. Could be hearsay.
 
Wick that may be too. My biggest concern was it sitting in a quench vessel in the garage in the Florida heat. Would it go bad? If Josh has had some sitting for 2 1/2 years and it don't stink too high heaven that part must not be true. What you are talking about may have to do more with it losing its ability to quench effectively. Maybe some that use it will chime in. I was asking this because of a discussion I had gotten into with another maker because I really don't now the answer too it! I know you use Parks and brine to quench with but I know there are some out there that pretty much use Canola exclusively.

I am not trying to down Canola or anyone that uses it, I just want know more about how well it keeps and now that you brought it up how often it has to be swaped out, so I can relay the info to my friend!
 
I am sure Canola has a shelf life insofar as eating it is concerned but I know of no "tests" that show it has a shelf life when used as a quenchant. However, the guys who make and sell Parks 50 and other quenchants will probably be able to explain to you in great detail why Canola has a very limited shelf life when used as a quenchant.

Leave two unsealed vessels, one filled with canola and another filled with your favorite space age quenchant. Come back in a week and I would be very surprised if evaporative loss of the space age quenchant was not greater. If viscosity changes over time then the ability of the fluid to extract heat from an object also changes.

CAVEAT: All quenchants are equally great!
 
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Hey I a not trying to ignite a quench wars here merely trying to get a handle on leaving Canola oil in a quench vessel is a problem. As far as I am concerned this is not about who use what and whether it is better! I figure it this way most quench vessels probably have a lid for flare up so it is not exposed directly to elements.

My concern was how Canola oil stood up to the heat of the summer and such. The guy and I am not naming names told me he refrigerated his in between uses. Which is great if you want to go through that hassle and you got the old refrigerator in the garage too do it!

My question was is it necessary to keep it from going bad?


What I want to know, so if you use Canola oil is this!

Do you leave your Canola oil sitting out all the time in your quench vessel, exposed to the heat of the day and such?

I work out of my garage, in the summer time here in Florida the heat and humidity forces me too open the doors and turn on a fan just to be able to stand it! So sometimes the only difference when I am working out there, between inside my garage and the outside, is the garage is mostly in the shade! Now you see why I am asking this question. I may have misinformed a fellow knife maker because of something that was told to me that I am beginning to believe had no truth to back it up! I am merely trying to get informed about whether the elements, mainly heat of the summer will make it go rancid!

I could care less if my friend wants to use Canola oil or panther wizz, I merely want to get informed enough to tell him if he decides to use the Canola oil he doesn't have to worry about refrigerating it in between uses as was stated at the beginning of this thread! Because if what Josh has told me is truth and I have no reason to doubt him then Florida heat doesn't cause it too go bad. Believe me if you have ever smelled cooking oil that has gone bad in the heat your nose will be one of the first things to tell you about it!

ran·cid   [ran-sid]
adjective
1.
having a rank, unpleasant, stale smell or taste, as through decomposition, especially of fats or oils: rancid butter.
2.
(of an odor or taste) rank, unpleasant, and stale: a rancid smell.
3.
offensive or nasty; disagreeable.
 
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I do not take any measures to prolong the alleged shelf life of Canola oil. I spot checked the specific gravity of Canola in my quench tank over an 8 month period in Texas (many 100 degree plus days) and the change was unremarkable. Rockwell tests were consistent throughout that same time period. The particulate matter from quenching blades settles to the bottom of the tank, remains there and the oil stays relatively clean. I only use Canola, water and air to quench - my scope of experience is relaitively limited compared to some of the heat treat Gurus here.

CAVEAT: All quenchants are good!

ps "Quench Wars" are like "Glue Wars" and "Star Wars" - don't take them seriously.


Hey I a not trying to ignite a quench wars here merely trying to get a handle on leaving Canola oil in a quench vessel is a problem. As far as I am concerned this is not about who use what and whether it is better! I figure it this way most quench vessels probably have a lid for flare up so it is not exposed directly to elements.

My concern was how Canola oil stood up to the heat of the summer and such. The guy and I am not naming names told me he refrigerated his in between uses. Which is great if you want to go through that hassle and you got the old refrigerator in the garage too do it!

My question was is it necessary to keep it from going bad?


What I want to know, so if you use Canola oil is this!

Do you leave your Canola oil sitting out all the time in your quench vessel, exposed to the heat of the day and such?

I work out of my garage, in the summer time here in Florida the heat and humidity forces me too open the doors and turn on a fan just to be able to stand it! So sometimes the only difference when I am working out there, between inside my garage and the outside, is the garage is mostly in the shade! Now you see why I am asking this question. I may have misinformed a fellow knife maker because of something that was told to me that I am beginning to believe had no truth to back it up! I am merely trying to get informed about whether the elements, mainly heat of the summer will make it go rancid1
 
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Cliff,

My sniffer just ain't what it used to be, too many years as a smoker I guess.

To set both our minds at ease and be certain I'm not giving you mis-information I fugured I better investigate this a little closer.

This Canola has been sitting in this cake pan uncovered and undisturbed for a LONG time ! And the verdict is ? It smells like..... wait for it.... Canola oil :biggrin:

Canola going rancid would be the least of my concerns. I'm no scientist but my guess would be that any changes to the oils quenching properties would be brought on by degradation caused by the hot blades more than time. If I'm correct here this would be another prime example of how different makers could potentially use the same steel, quenchant, and temps, but still get varying results . Each maker needs to be prudent in figuring out what works for him in his shop with his tools and consider others HT specs a starting point that while probably will give excellent results must still be verified.

:p

002-6.jpg


Have a great day buddy !

-Josh
 
For the THIRD TIME now- we can all use whatever we like for a quenchant, and respect others right to do the same. The question was about the stability of canola oil, not what quenchants are better. Some time ago I found Canola not to meet my needs, there are many makers who decided otherwise, so instead of calling them out at every opportunity I just refrain from mentioning it. It has been a bit of diplomacy that has worked so well for me that I must insist we try it here if we can’t stick to objective facts.

ps "Quench Wars" are like "Glue Wars" and "Star Wars" - don't take them seriously.
As a moderator I take what they do to the friendly and constructively educational aspects of a forum very seriously. If anybody has facts or data about a quenchant, by all means share it, if you have a personal hang-up with a particular quench medium, work it out with yourself.

Edited to add:
...I'm no scientist but my guess would be that any changes to the oils quenching properties would be brought on by degradation caused by the hot blades more than time...
-Josh

:thumbup1: Bingo!
 
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With due respect:

I think we agree that the "Wars" do not have merit and therefore should not be taken seriously BECAUSE different makers use and have good results using different quenchants. There is no "ideal" quenchant but there are many that work just fine.

Jeff

For the THIRD TIME now- we can all use whatever we like for a quenchant, and respect others right to do the same. The question was about the stability of canola oil, not what quenchants are better. Some time ago I found Canola not to meet my needs, there are many makers who decided otherwise, so instead of calling them out at every opportunity I just refrain from mentioning it. It has been a bit of diplomacy that has worked so well for me that I must insist we try it here if we can’t stick to objective facts.


As a moderator I take what they do to the friendly and constructively educational aspects of a forum very seriously. If anybody has facts or data about a quenchant, by all means share it, if you have a personal hang-up with a particular quench medium, work it out with yourself.
 
Oxidation can be a problem with canola or any of the other veggies. However canola is considered one of the more stable vegetable oils. The only change I've noticed is that with use it changes color and becomes a brownish tint like tea. When it's fresh, it's clear and has a slight greenish yellow tint. That's how it should look when it's used as a quenchant. It will last longer if you take care of it. Keep it corked up when not it use and store it at moderate temps. Room temp., should be fine for practical purposes.

I've heard of it becoming cloudy or smelly, but that's not been my experience with it. Although, I don't think they would be good things.
 
Without touching on the other issues, I've been using the same batch of canola for about a year and a half now. I have several gallons of it in a 60 size nitrogen tank that had the top cut off and turned into a cap to protect from contamination. Keeping in mind my northern location and that it's inside a garage that stays fairly cool, it's still not rancid. It continues to work similarly enough to when new that I can't tell a difference.
 
Bush Monkey that is what I hoping too hear. Now I can tell my buddy he doesn't have to worry about storage. The reason said I wan't trying to rekindle the "Quench Wars"is that when everybody goes to war the real question gets lost in the skirmish!

Josh, that is too funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But thanks for taking one for the team!:what!::biggrin::s12137:
 
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A funny story...
I had some ancient canola sitting around, unsealed for at least 7 years, maybe more, in a leaky shop open to the elements. I had basically forgotten about it until the time came around to clean the shop (about once every 7 years)... I thought what the heck and decided to try it, despite the fact it was no longer anything resembling clear and clean, more like dark and cloudy. The blade was 1080 and it survived the quench but developed sori like it had been quenched in water... how odd, I thought. So I tried it again, same steel, and I ended up with a cracked blade. This was the first time I've ever managed to have a blade crack in an oil quench (I've had plenty, too many crack in water, but that's beside the point).

Ends up that my canola oil had become saturated with moisture... it seems that oil and water will mix, given time. My advice, keep it sealed when not in use, and clean out the shop more than once every seven years.... :)
 
Here in AZ, if you leave it sitting out in a shallow pan long enough, it will dry out and become semi solid, (like linseed oil).

Keep it corked up.
 
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Thanks Taigoo and to everyone else that has responded to this thread, I appreciate information!

Look when I ask a question I try to stay away from the controversial side of things, sometimes that is hard to do, but if I want an answer on a controversial subject I generally know the maker I can go to with a PM and get an answer. I have come to realize that there are certain things that ignite a passion in makers, and while I think some folks are pot stirrers I get enough of that real quick! Most folks when they ask a question are generally looking for information not controversy!

My biggest concern in all of this was the heat. It goes without saying that a quench vessel with a lid is a must have. It is great for flare-ups, it keeps contaminates out of the quench medium, and slows down derogation and evaporation of the quench. My biggest concern was the Florida heat and humidity. From what I am hearing I can tell my friend that he is OK as long as he had a lid for his quench tank to store it in his garage, and that is what I was trying to figure out.

Having never used canola oil myself, you all helped to clear up a mis-conception that had been told to me about it needed to be refrigerated when not in use! An idea that might be great if you have an old refrigerator in your shop but, sounds like a real pain in the back side!:biggrin:
 
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