1x30 belt sander speed idea

USMC_ROCKO

Well-Known Member
I have been making custom Knives from old Nicolson files for 4 months now am have been doing good, And I am using Blaze grit sanding belts from 40-120 and it works but my speed isnt fast enough . so I am wondering if anyone thinks its possible to take the motor off of the 1x30 and attach a pulley to the drive shaft on 1x30 and a pulley on a bench grinder so I can change the speeds. I mean I would love to get your guy's imput and ideas if it will work . I mean I would love to have a kmg,Burr King, or even a grizzly but I can't afford it right now , I am trying to moddify my 1x30 or even get ideas for something better that will work better then just a stock 1x30 with a ceramic platten.
 
I was thinking about your idea:22:. I would think the higher RPM may be too much for the 1X 30 and cause you more problems. I have had a 1 X 30 for several months now and I understand the limitations your dealing with.
 
What if I moddified it to take 1x42 belts, and if that dont work then I guess Ill just keep if for sharpening and buy a 2x42 or 2x48
 
I have to agree that increasing the speed MIGHT cause other unforeseen issues.....very likely the bearings wouldn't handle it. That's one of the reasons I always cringe when it comes to folks using "hobby" level machines for blade grinding.....they are just not built to handle the stress and strain. The biggest problem with just about anything mechanical these days is that everything is "speced" so tightly....meaning that everything is calculated on a given set of use parameters. The parts, bearings, castings, forgings, etc. used to produce the given machine are create to withstand NO MORE than the calculated stresses.....the days of "beefy" tools is gone. This is another reason that I'm always recommending that folks save their pennies a buy themselves one of the "top end" grinders if the intent is to do this stuff for any duration of time. It won't "break" on you, and even if you do decide that you don't want to make knives anymore, you'll almost always get your money back out of one of the top end grinders.

To give you another example of what I'm talking about.....I purchased a new Ford F150 in 2011. Nearly any modification I could make to the truck will void the warranty. After a lot of research, I discovered that almost every part of the truck is "speced" to withstand only the power the truck produces in stock format. Bigger, heavier tires/wheels, exhaust mods that produce more HP, or anything else that "ups" the stresses on various parts can be cause for the warranty to be voided. It's all because they build the parts to handle only the amount of power, stress, strain that the factory power exerts......same thing with tools, and other machines. If you go to modifying them and they break, you're pretty much on your own.
 
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I'd recommend that you scrounge, scrape, a save, and build yourself a NWGS with a flat platen. You should fairly easily be able to do this for WELL under 500 bucks if you're patient, and the best part is, you have an "upgradeable" machine, that if built correctly, will grind with the best of them.
 
More speed isn't what you need, more power is. Unless your machine can stand having you push quite firmly. My little 1x30 certainly can't do that, it's a constant balance of pressure and speed. Realistically, it is either spinning far faster than I'd like or about to stall. I don't use it for much of anything these days, but even the 2x42 craftsman grinder has a similar problem. It's a lot more powerful, but it's still a speed demon rather than a power house. Most of us that own them would love to trade speed for torque but with a direct drive setup like that it's just not practical.
Your exact choice of new grinders is up to you, but that's pretty much the only practical option. As a current owner of a 2x42 craftsman who is in the process of upgrading I highly suggest you bypass this machine and go straight to a more capable 2x72, preferably a KMG style machine. That can be a nwg, gib, kmg... any of many machines with similar designs. The Grizzley and Coote machines have similar issues to the smaller machines but are still significantly more capable than the smaller machines. The cost/benefit is simply not as good as the KMG style machines. The better tracking, easier speed adjustment, easier to modify design, ease of changing your point of contact for grinding... It's a heck of a lot easier to switch a kmg style machine from a large contact wheel to a small wheel, to flat platen, to slack belt...

Don't get me wrong, the 2x42 is pretty decent for what it is. Many of us have used it to good effect. The problem is that it's simply a larger and slightly stronger version of what you have, not a complete change in the situation. I'm all but counting the days until my 2x72 arrives. I've actually put all new blade grinding on hold until then.
 
Remy.....excellent post! That is about the best explanation I've every heard on the smaller versus larger grinders......very well worded! Kudos to you!

That's one of the posts that I am tempted to copy/save for the future!
 
Thanks. I've given grinders a lot of thought since I started. I came into it eyes wide open in regards to my 2x42, but it was all I could afford to start with. I've taken the time since then to read everything folks have said, play with and get a feel for all sorts of different machines. It all comes down to being able to run the belt at the speed you want at the pressure the task and belt require, with the best tracking you can get. After that it's just a matter of what's behind the belt where you are grinding. In that sense, there's no difference between my 2x42 and what I'm upgrading to, I use a glass platen and it's a 2" belt. It's the ability to set the speed where it should be and having it STAY there that matters, along with proper tracking.

Right now there's no question, the KMG type machines, regardless of who made it and the minor details, are the state of the art for individual knife makers. Brian Fellhoelter's Ubergrinder is a great example of how even this mature design can evolve. The TW90 is another example of how the general design has been tweaked and tuned by experts.

I can't wait to work on my new machine, I've come a long way since I got to play with a good grinder and would love to see how much better I can do. Not having to baby the grinder will be a nice change as well. :) I think it comes down to the right tools for the job making it easier to get good results and speeding up the work once you have the skills mastered.

Getting back to the original post... I'd take it in steps if the money is an issue. Figure out what kind of power you can supply, since if you don't have 220V in your shop and don't want to change that, then the 2hp and up motors are generally not an option. Keep an eye out for your choice in motors on craigs list, local shops... the same with things like idler wheels, contact wheels, maybe even the VFD. You can order a GIB or NWG frame pre made if you want to avoid that hassle, or make your own. If you're patient the total cost is pretty reasonable and can be spread over as much time as you need. I just wouldn't put money down on a 2x42 unless you know you won't be upgrading for quite a while. It's a stop gap measure, pure and simple. And that's coming from a guy that's used one and is pretty happy with it. I have no intention of getting rid of mine, but I'll stop abusing it and myself by using it for a task it isn't designed for.
 
More speed isn't what you need, more power is. Unless your machine can stand having you push quite firmly. My little 1x30 certainly can't do that, it's a constant balance of pressure and speed. Realistically, it is either spinning far faster than I'd like or about to stall. I don't use it for much of anything these days, but even the 2x42 craftsman grinder has a similar problem. It's a lot more powerful, but it's still a speed demon rather than a power house. Most of us that own them would love to trade speed for torque but with a direct drive setup like that it's just not practical.
Your exact choice of new grinders is up to you, but that's pretty much the only practical option. As a current owner of a 2x42 craftsman who is in the process of upgrading I highly suggest you bypass this machine and go straight to a more capable 2x72, preferably a KMG style machine. That can be a nwg, gib, kmg... any of many machines with similar designs. The Grizzley and Coote machines have similar issues to the smaller machines but are still significantly more capable than the smaller machines. The cost/benefit is simply not as good as the KMG style machines. The better tracking, easier speed adjustment, easier to modify design, ease of changing your point of contact for grinding... It's a heck of a lot easier to switch a kmg style machine from a large contact wheel to a small wheel, to flat platen, to slack belt...

Don't get me wrong, the 2x42 is pretty decent for what it is. Many of us have used it to good effect. The problem is that it's simply a larger and slightly stronger version of what you have, not a complete change in the situation. I'm all but counting the days until my 2x72 arrives. I've actually put all new blade grinding on hold until then.

Remy, I also agree with most of your post except that the Coote Grinder is going to have the speed verses torque problems etc..

As you said, It is a fixed machine but they are a great grinder for the cost, I have a step pulley set up on mine with a 2hp 120v 1750ish RPM motor from early post WWII. It will always have a place in my shop along with my KMG and my Flagship Hardcore grinder.

If you are on a tight budget and need a solid 2 x 72" machine that you can flat grind, hollow grind, and Slack belt with all you need is a couple of pulleys from the Hardware store, some link belt, And really most any old motor of a 1hp or more, You can be turning out some knives very quickly.

This is what I did some 13 plus years ago and in about eighteen months I had sold enough and was able to put aside enough to get my ultra smooth and quiet Hardcore 2 x 72"

The Coote Grinder still has a important place in my shop, I use it for handle sculpting mostly,
The two wheel design is a benefit if you enjoy making convex knives or using it for the sculpting as I said.

If you think vibration is a problem mount the Coote on a 4 x 4" by the tower and this will really take care of it. I learned or better said, Figured out a bunch of ways to use the Coote 2 x 72" for many many uses of knife making so feel free to contact me if you buy one.

I know you were trying to just show the benefits of the 2 x 72 KMG, No Weld, etc grinders .
But it is my understanding that these follow the Bader line of Grinding machines.
Having a center arm, While the Hardcore follows the BurrKing design. Another excellent top line of grinding machines. That are to the right of center.

Most importantly is forget the short belt machines and go with a 2 x 72" of your liking like Ed and Remy
pointed out! You also get the best belt selection in 2 X 72"

Cheers!

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
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For the Coote and griz it's mostly just the design limitations rather than power, I guess I phrased it wrong. The Coote in particular is a well made machine that has it all over the smaller stuff.

When it comes to the design, there are differences but as far as I'm concerned the Bader and the Burrking setups are just variations of each other. They have design differences but the general parameters are the same and the overall mechanics are the same. It's like different brands of cars but still the full sized sedan.
 
I am not going to be able to afford a 2x72 belt grinder for a while plus I kinda got use to the 1x30 just needed an inch and longer belt and better machine than a HF 1x30. I got some blaze 60 grit belts and ceramic platen ,etc.
 
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