Heat treating 1084 steel?

Pedro G.

Well-Known Member
I have no idea where to start :p The more I look into it, as in videos, forums, sites I just get more and more confused with all the terms and science that frankly has never crossed my mind.

Whatever you can tell me would be great.

Thank you very much!
-Pedro G.
 
http://www.cashenblades.com/steel/1084.html

1-You will want to normalize (air cool) from 1600, I would do this 2 more times and decrease the temp 20-30 degrees each time.

2-After that is the austenizing heat, 1500F for long enough to equalize the temp, then quench, preferably in fast oil.

3-Temper-you may have to look up the range for this steel and adjust your temper to get the edge performance you want, it may depend on the effectiveness of the hardening cycle.
 
Pedro, relax. We all started out where you are now. Yes, you should learn the technical terms to follow discussions but that will come with time and experience. Right now concentrate on the basics. You can cookbook the heat treatment; later you can study the science behind it-if you find it necessary. It will help you understand what may have gone wrong when things don't go as planned. Simple steels, like the 1084, are probably the best right now as they are, with the possible exception or 1095, most forgiving when it comes to heat treatment.

Doug
 
Thank you

1) How do I know what temperature my fire is and how can I reduce it in a small crummy coal forge?
2) Is fast oil a product?
3) Does a kitchen oven work for this process?

-Pedro G.
 
Is it really that simple? With at the technicalities i've read everywhere it would seem to be somewhat more complicated than that. And with the whole warping and burning off tops and edges and what not.
 
Yes, it can be that simple, especially with simple steels line the 10XX series. Temperature can be judged by color-kinda sorta-but you should have dim light. Some wait until after sundown and work by forge light. Another thing that you could do is get a piece of blackpipe with a large enough diameter to hold you blade and maybe a little longer than the blade and build your fire up around it. This will dispurse the heat more evenly.

The approximate iridescent color ranges are:

Temp degree F. Color

1200 dull red-non magnetic
1400 red- may start to go non magnetic
1500 cherry red-good to austinize at
1600 full/bright cherry red
1800 orange
1900 orange yellow
2000 yellow
2200 full yellow-welding temp
2400 light yellow/near white-upper
welding temp

There are things called heat crayons that start to melt at certain temperature. I haven't used them and I don't know how high up in temperature they go. If someone has used them they could say where they got theirs.

Vegetable oil is pretty fast but you can try get an oil that is made to quench. I think that Parks 50 is one the trick is to find it in smaller amounts. A welding supply store would probably be a good place to check and the gentleman who bought out Ellis Custom Knife Works may also carry it.

There are makers on these boards that do make it sound like you have to have all sorts of complicated ovens to make knives but you don't. Knives have been heat treated in non-regulated forges that they have in regulated ovens. Granted, with some of the more complex steels they are pretty necessary and they do allow a precission that is not available in non regulated forges.

The kitchen oven can be used to temper the simpler steels. Monitor the temperature with an internal thermometer and you can buffer the temperature cyclling pay putting the knife on a try of preheated sand. If that idea is getting you a little stink eye from your wife and master of the kitchen, you can get a toaster oven to keep peace in the house.

Doug
 
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Thank you very much for the explanation doug, It cleared up a bit more (I'm pretty slow at understanding).

Are those color temps the flame colors or the metal colors?

Could I use olive oil or canola oil or some used motor oil? I have no money to spend right now. What I have left i'm going to buy some charcoal with (Can't light the forge without that!). And I want to get the jist of HT and what not before I go on spending money.

Is 1084 simple enough?

What do you mean by preheated sand?

What will the blade look like after I finish the whole HT and temper process?

Oh and one more question. What can I use to hold the blade in the forge? I didn't understand the pipe thing very well. I was thinking of some pliers but wouldn't the pliers heat up too?

Thank you again doug,

-Pedro G.
 
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Pedro,

Keep it simply as possible when you are starting out. Make ten knives using the same steel. 1084 is a good one to start with. Its not a complex steel and is forgiving in its heat range. Google 1084 heat treating and you will get all the info you need to carry out a basic heat treat. Get your self a magnet with a handle to test for non magnetic condition. No one achieves perfection from the beginning. Learning this craft takes time and should not be rushed. Take your time and focus on enjoying the learning.
Regards, Fred
 
It don't get much simpler than anything in the 10XX series.
I'm refering to the glow of the heated steel.
What I mean by preheating the tray of sand is that you want it up to temperature along with the oven when you put the blade on it.
For heat treating pliers will do but you let the blade rest in the fuel or tube. You only use the pliers to put the blade in the fire, more it around as necessary, and remove it from the fire. You also look at one of the blacksmithing supply companies on line and order some tongs. I use a wolf jaw pattern for heat treating. The longer handles will keep you hand farther away form the fire. Welder's gloves are also good for protecting the hands from the heat.

The blade will have a black scale over it. You can remove that by soaking it in white vinegar overnight.

Doug
 
Pedro G
I agree that the science behind metallurgy is very confusing and it is easy to find contradictions. Fortunately you've picked the best beginner, home heat treatment steel there is.

For 1080/84 steel a magnet will tell you when you're at the right temperature. When the magnet not longer is attracted to the steel you should be at 1414 degrees F. You won't get this temperature in a kitchen oven. I use a homemade forge made from a coffee can and salvaged hot water heater fan and burn homemade charcoal.

For tempering the blades (after hardening) I made "things" out of cut up tin cans that hold the blades on edge rather than laying them flat. The "things" are in the shape of an upside down capital "T" with a slot cut into the sticking up part. The tang goes in there to hold the blade upright.

After cleaning ALL the oil and crud off them, usually sanding them clean, I put them on a cookie sheet and make a lose tent of aluminum foil over them to keep radiant heat from the top heating element from over heating them. Then into the preheated kitchen oven for an hour at 400 degrees F, take them out to let them cool, then back in for another hour. They should come out a nice toasty yellowish color. I like to put sprinkles on them and have them with milk.

Oops,.wrong forum! ;-)

- Paul Meske
 
How would you make homemade charcoal exactly? I find it kind of expensive when it comes down to how fast it burns out. And I have no coal I can buy in my area.

Would it be alright to just stick it in the oven? Flat on the rails.

Can you use normal foil?

haha sounds delicious.

-Pedro G.
 
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