Japanese Style Kitchen Knife - Grinding Advice

RickA

Well-Known Member
Japanese Style Kitchen Knife - Grinding Advice Needed?

Hi Everyone

Calling all the Kitchen knife experts!!!!

I am embarking on a Kitchen knife project for a club competition in November, and since I already have a couple of "French" Chef style knives, I have decided to go with a Japanese Style design, with a single edge "chisel grind" (From what I have seen and read of Japanese kitchen knives it makes for a very sharp kitchen knife" - if you have ever tried to make Sushi you will know you need a very sharp knife!

I took a look at a selection of Japanese knives yesterday for inspiration and ideas, and the knife design I really like and decided to go with is the "Santoku". The ones I examined were made of pretty thin steel (1.8 - 2mm), and were "Scary sharp"

I am going to make my first one out of O1 (Bohler K460). I got some 2mm O1 today, and was just sitting and wondering.

Since the steel is pretty thin to begin with - Should I grind the the bevel to take the edge down to 0.6 - 0.8mm before heat treat, or should I just grind the bevel after heat treat?

I have been reliably informed that O1 is fairly sensitive to heat after heat treating (compared to other more "high tech" steels) - ie: grinding after heat treat may be very difficult to accomplish on such a thin blade without affecting the blade's temper.

Since I want to use the "Japanese" style single edge grind, if I take the blade down to 0.6 - 0.8mm before HT, It would be even thinner and more susceptible to grinding causing heat and affecting its temper after HT

Any advice from the experts in the pound?? How do you go about grinding Kitchen knife blades, which are typically very thin (excepting cleavers etc) compared to other knife styles.

Thanks
Rick
 
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First you should know that traditional Japanese Knives are layered with a hard white or blue steel core with softer steel or even iron exteriors. This laminated effect is what gives these knifes the strength to be so thin while having a hardness at the edge that allows the steep chisel bevel. The non-laminated blades I've seen are not as thin and have either a double bevel or a more obtuse gross cutting angle. I don't know enough about steel to tell you if you can do what you want here, especially with some of the modern engineered steels now available, but there might be a good reason why you don't see them. I think experimentation is good and important in all craft but there are often failures before success down that road.
 
You may want to ask your question HERE as many Kitchen Knife Makers frequent the forum. The likes of Butch Harner, D.T, and a few others post there regularly. Also, it has more information than any one person will ever need about kitchen knives, especially J blades. Not to mention great examples in for of photos of both blades and handles.

Best of luck.
 
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i bet bubba-san could help you, he knows alot about all kinds of japinese blades. he has a forum here i think.
 
I make damascus and mono steel Japanese style kitchen knives. I have not tried san mai, yet. I forge them to start with but heat treat when they are still fairly thick and then grind them down from there. If I had steel at the thickness you are going to be starting with, I would just heat treat it first, then grind the bevels. For all grindingn after heat treat it is important to use fresh belts and cool the blade in water very often. Also grinding without gloves helps you remember to keep the blade cool. I try to get to about 97+ percent of my final geometry with a 50 or 60 grit belt. Then just remove the scratches with a 120, then 220 then hand sand. The high grit belts build heat WAY faster than lower grit belts and you can ruin the temper very quickly with a heavy hand or staying in one spot too long. Hope this helps. If you get it right on your first try, you have some skills or luck. However once you can grind this type of blade successfully, doing a hunter or bowie is much easier.
 
Hi John

Thank you very much for the advice, Much appreciated. I will remember what you said about the belt grits. I think I am going to cut and grind the blade profile over the weekend and have it hardened next week. Then grind after hardening.

Thanks
Rick
 
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