NWGS motor question?

Pedro G.

Well-Known Member
So I purchased the plans for the NWGS and I have't received them yet but since i'm so enthusiastic about it, I began looking for the "high cost parts" the moment I ordered the plans.

The question I have now is about the motor. I have found 4 craigslist offers which don't look half bad but I need opinion from experts because I have no idea what I would need.
Here are the links:
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/tls/2466384672.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ele/2488492707.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/tls/2437337665.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/tls/2456474080.html

If the links don't work then i'll explain what they are. Anyways. Tell me which one you think would work best with a NWGS. Or which offer is more suitable.

Thank you for your help
-Peter :)
 
Peter, what you need is a 1.5 or 2 hp 1800 (or 1725) TEFC 56C motor. 5 hp is wayyyy more than you need. If you don't have 3 phase power you will have to have a phase converter or a VFD. If you want true variable speed you will need a VFD and a 3 phase motor. If you are going to use step pulleys to have "adjustable speed" (like a drill press) then get a single phase. One of the motors listed is Electrim. That is the brand motor that I sell but not for $25.00. Be careful what size shaft is on the motor to be sure that you can get step pulleys or drive wheels that fit it. 56C motors have a 5/8" shaft. I suggest that if you are going to go with a 3 phase motor and a VFD make the grinder direct drive. USA Knifemaker sells 5/8 and 3/4 drive wheels.
 
I'm sorry, I didn't understand very much of that... Terminology is not my strong point yet.
All the 5 HP are 3 phase and I don't want anything too complicated yet I just want something that will work better than my 1/3 HP 4" belt sanders motor :p
-Peter
 
Three phase motors are a little cheaper-but only if you are wired for three phase power. Other than that you will need a converter to change the single phase power, which is what the vast majority of services are, to three phase. I don't know the fine details of the difference between the two types but you can go to Wikipedia if yor're interested. I agree with Wayne that what you need is something between 1.5 and 2 hp, an absolute minimum would be 1 hp. You may be able to find a 1.5 hp single phase moter in 110-120 volts but over that you are looking at 220-240 volts. Depending on your service and your set up, this might require wiring in a 240 volt circuit. You might be able to share the outlet to your eletric dryer to get the higher voltage service. If not, you will need to look for a single phase 110-120 volt motor with a speed of around 1800 rpm if you want to use a pulley cone to adjust the speed. If you want to go single speed a faster motor can be used. You will just need to use a larger pulley on the grinder to slow the surface feet per minute. If you have a way to run a 220-240 volt circuit without having to have an eletrician run a new circuit for you, or if that is a something that you are willing to get done, 220 is the way to go. It will give more power even at the same hp rating.

Doug
 
In the list of links, There is one 1.5 HP baldor motor for 25$ and there is a new 2.5 HP motor for 100$.
I got confused with the circute part. There is a 220v plug in the laundry room right next to the garage where I have my machines. But i'd find it way way easier to have it run on 110v because it will ensue a lot more issues that I might try to work out some other time. But for now all I have is 110v plug.

-Peter
 
By the way the guy with the new 2.5 HP motor is the only one who confirmed he still has it and he lives near by but is 2.5 HP too much?
-Peter
 
As best I can tell all of these are 3 phase motors which means you'll need a variable frequency drive (or phase converter) to run them off of your home's single phase power. All houses (barring some freak house) have single phase power. VFD's, new at least, will run $300ish and phase converters are more I believe.

I apologize for the bluntness of this comment, but you need to slow down and get a little more knowledge under your belt. You're saying you're confused by what should be knowledge you should have before trying to hook any of the motors up within your home. That scares me....although I'm no electrician and the stuff still kind of scares me....but I know enough at this point I reckon.

Amperage, phasing, voltage....let's not burn a house down. A 5 HP motor is going to draw a LOT of amps (to be truthful I'm not sure how a VFD affects the amperage draw though), but still, a 5HP motor will likely require a dedicated 40 amp circuit or maybe higher than that.....you won't have this already and will need to put it in. Even my 1.5HP motor had to have a dedicated 220 volt circuit ran. If you run a 1.5HP motor off of a 110 volt circuit, the circuit needs rated at 20+ amps as the motor will draw somewhere around 15 amps at full load....a dedicated circuit. You won't have that in your house either likely.

What you want for a grinder is somewhere between a 1.5 HP and 2.5 HP motor. I have a 1.5 HP motor as I already noted. Single phase versus 3 phase will depend on what kind of speed control you're going to set up. A 3 phase motor is necessary if you plan on getting a VFD to have more speed control....for all rights it's infinite adjustment within the speed range of the motor. A pulley system will be cheaper based on the cost of a VFD, but will typically be limited to 3 or 4 speeds. I have a pulley system.
 
How much is a pulley step system usually?

Bluntness is fine, it gets the point across much quicker and I understand what you mean. I'm just wondering at this point if it's a good idea to go with any of the deals specifically the 2.5 HP (Which doesn't specify if it's 3 phase). Don't worry I won't put anything in my house unless i'm sure i'm doing it right.

I'm pretty confused on the third paragraph.

I would like to stay at around 100 for the whole motor part of the NWGS if at all possible so a 300$ converter is not something i'm looking at. I've seen what a 3 step pulley system looks like and as far as I understand it kind of works like a bike with different speeds. Am I close?

-Peter
 
Peter,

What "Watercrawl" said about the amperage is important, I believe. Virtually all residences have only single phase current, even the 240 volt to your laundry room. And the 120 volt (110 v.) typical household outlet is wired for a 15 amp circuit breaker, meaning thinner wire than recommended for the higher amps that a grinder motor would draw. More amps through thinner wire means more resistance and heat build up and fire hazard. Others may know that this is really not a concern, but it caused me to abandon the household outlet and have an electrician pull some 240 v. wire and add a 240 v. circuit breaker. As noted above, most of the motors that you'll find on ebay or craigslist are 3 phase motors. They simply will not work on single phase current. The gizmo "VFD" that converts single phase to three phase is wired to the motor then plugged into the 240v outlet, or if you get a motor 1 1/2 hp or less a 110 v. outlet if it has a 30 amp circuit breaker. The VFD was the most expensive component of my grinder, but in my opinion essential.

As also noted above you want a TEFC "56c" face motor. TEFC means totally enclosed fan cooled. You'll be making a lot of dust. 56c means that the drive shaft is the right size for the stuff we use, although I'm pretty sure Beaumont Metal Works has a wheel that attaches to the shaft for a T face. You'll see a lot of those for sale. Make sure that it has a base as well. I think that is necessary for the NWG plans, but not sure about that and if you go the pulley route 1725 rpm or there a bouts. But that said, please anyone correct me if you disagree with any of my posting.
Jay
 
Hi Pedro,
In the plans I have 5 pages of motor stuff and break it all down.
Originally in the plans I specified 1750RPM motors, I would probably suggest a 3450RPM motor now days.
You want a 5/8" shaft (very typical in this range motor)
at least 1.5hp but not more than 2hp
if you are going with step pullys, get a single speed 1phase 110v
if you are going with a variable speed, see the plans as there are several options or just call Wayne Coe and buy a variable set up from him.
 
Makes sense to check the plans :p I get kind of anxious when I check craigslist because offers come and go really quickly if they are deals. But patience is key.
By the way, is there a way to check the tracking number on an item you buy from usaknifemaker.com? or do the items not have tracking numbers.
-Peter
 
If you ordered it online, you should be emailed a tracking number. If not, lof into your account and see if it's there. If not, call them, they don't bite hard. :)

The drive belt can be as cheap as $10 or more than $30 depending on what you get bid recommend that V link stuff. Reduces vibration and can be made to fit any length. Kind of like links of anchain great stuff. Tracy sells it.
 
I can tell you from hard experience that getting ahead of yourself can cost you more than missing out on a great price. As I said earier, 3 phase motors are cheaper only if you're wired for 3 phase eletrical service which you are not. Converters cost several hundred dollars as I remember. Enough to buy you a couple of new in box 110 volt motors. As far as the amps go, that will be listed on the spec plate on the motor. It might not be a bad idea for you to give an electrician a call once you know what the load is and have him check the circuit to see if it will handle it. You might discover something interesting like I did when I lived in Virginia. I had a 15 amp wire on a 20 amp breaker.

As far as cone pulleys go, Tracy carries them and a pair is probably under $40. I used the adjustable link belt that he carries and it works fine for me.

Doug
 
Yes you would have to by belts for the drive. I would not buy a motor yet there is a section in the plans that cover motor selection. You will have time while your building to study that information. Plus you still have to acquire a lot of other items before you will even be ready for setting up your motor. Take your time and look at NWG that were built by others this will give you more ideas so you can customize your grinder to your work. You will be glad you took your time in the long run
 
By the way I have a separate question. I have some tanks I want to sell which will supply me with the money for this project. I have no idea if they could be used for knife making but I don't need them either way. Problem is, is that I can't find the right price. No were on the internet can I find the pricing for this item so i'm not sure what to sell it for... Is there a place in this forum where I could post these and get help with that?
-Pedro
 
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