Newbie- Belt grinder issues.

Pedro G.

Well-Known Member
I have started my blades flat grind today and it was coming around pretty well but the belt sanders belt keeps shifting from side to side, it won't hold still and i can't seem to get an even grind. It's also chipping at my riccasso. Any idea's on how to fix this?

-Pedro
 
Pedro,

To keep the belt from digging into the plunge (where the ricasso meets the bevel) you need to track the belt so it running past the edge of the platen on the plunge side (try about 1/8"). This will allow the belt to flex or roll over the edge of platen and make the plunge a radius. This may prove difficult with a heavy weight belt (one thats real stiff instead of being flexible)

Your issue with the belt moving around from left to right is probably caused by not enough tension on the belt.

-Josh
 
Josh Dabney: I'm sorry i'm confused there? and I have a cheap craftsman 1/3 HP 4"x36" belt sander. How could I fix the pressure?
 
Pedro,

I'm not familiar with that syle grinder so I'm not much help there but there should be a way to tighten up the belt I would think.

Perhaps theres a lever you pull to change the belt that has some adjustment on it ?????

Or spring tension of some variety ?????

Just guessing but there's got to be some tension on the belt somehow
 
There is a leaver you pull to change the belts but even with that it doesn't do much, there is one thing that does look like you can lift the contact wheel but it only has round/oddly hexed wholes which nothing fits into so i'm not sure how to fix it?

-Peter
 
Thing is that I don't want to take apart my machine to look for any screws or anything because I probably won't be able to rebuild it.
 
You could try googling the craftsman tool model and see if there is something online about how to adjust the belt tension
 
I hate to say this but you would probably do better with files than a 4X36" sander used as a grinder. They're just not set up for the job. I know this from sad experience.

I did run across a thread posted by a machinist who mounted a 4" wide platten over the platten on the machine so that there would be a ledge that would allow the cutting of a plunge line. This would make a big improvement but I would not do any modifications to your machine unless the tracking problem is corrected. You may be better off by returning it to the store as a defective product and getting your money back. I understand that Sears carries a 2X42" belt sander that is usable as a knife grinder. You might take a look at one of those until you have the money to invest in a purpose built belt grinder or buy the parts to make your own.

Doug
 
Doug: It's worked fine for me, I mean files are fine but this makes it a lot easier when you know the kinks. I'm trying to get help from some site, I think i'll have it fixed by the end of this week hopefully. It's been about 2 years or so since I got it so I don't think I can return it any longer the warranty is for 1 year. Which is better, making one or buying one?
 
Doug: It's worked fine for me, I mean files are fine but this makes it a lot easier when you know the kinks.
Of course working with the machine is easier than filing; that's why we have them. But working with files is simply a reminder that the machines do not always perform as expected.
I think what Doug is trying to say is that using files is a viable alternative until you sort out the problems with your machine, if they can be sorted out.


I'm trying to get help from some site, I think i'll have it fixed by the end of this week hopefully. It's been about 2 years or so since I got it so I don't think I can return it any longer the warranty is for 1 year.
Best of luck with it. So you're in the dilemma of having your sander down trying to sort out the kinks. Just remember that many products still cause problems due to design. So if you cannot figure out a way to correct the tracking/tension problem with your particular machine, you are faced with two choices:
1. Modify the current machine.
2. Switch to a design which easier accommodates your purposes.


Which is better, making one or buying one?
This depends on your time, budget, and skills.
See below.

I have both purchased and built many types of sanders over the years. Some of these machines could easily accommodate an entire household door. So bear with me, because I have to sort of "think backwards" here.

Buying
If you have immediate needs (probably not, considering this is not how you're earning your living) and have the money available, purchasing a proven design is a viable option. It's then only a plug-and-play matter of getting right to work.

Building
For those with budget concerns (and who doesn't have those?!), building is a way to get a quality tool, provided you're using a good design and are resourceful enough.

For knifemaking, the most popular designs are based on a 2x72 belt for various good reasons.
There are many "levels of completion" in the kits offered, and the level you need will depend on your abilities to finish the project.

For plans, I highly recommend checking with BossDog (Tracey Mickley).
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html
Following these plans will allow you to build a quality grinder at your own pace. No special fabrication skills (such as welding) are needed.
You can even source the materials a little at a time.

If you want an approach that is less "from the ground up", Wayne Coe offers various levels of kits. Wayne is a member of this forum and is also a great person to do business with.

There are many other sources as well.
Check out this thread and study the different designs in the photos:
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?7390-World-s-best-thread-about-grinders...

In the meantime, I would learn how to get the most out of what you currently have, and supplement any shortcomings with handwork while building the better machine (or building up funds to purchase one). You need the experience with handwork- this is what teaches you the basics of the material with which you're working, and the experience also teaches you what features/abilities you need in a machine before plunking down cash/time on something that may or may not be suitable for your needs.
There are many people out there who do truly awesome work with very little.

Whatever you decide, you'll get plenty of help.

Good Luck,
Rob
 
rob45: Thank you for this info, and you're right. There are people who make incredibly well done work with few basic tools, and taking it slow usually means less mess-ups. So if I do happen to not have a sander anymore I would not stop knife making because of it. But because sanders are so useful, it would be nice to have one. Personally I have little money, I have time, not much skill though but I have friends who do. So it's a matter of knowing which one is best for me (And as a plus, If I build it, i'll theoretically know how to repair it if something goes wrong). Again, Thank you very much for you're post. It was extremely helpful.
Can you save certain posts for reference?
-Pedro
 
Actually, Rob, what Doug was trying to say is that one would be better off with files than a 4X36" belt sander with grinding belts. I will add the caveat: unless it it modified with a platen the same width as the belt. That way the work can overhang the platen at the edge of the belt. I have done it both way and, admitting that others may have had better luck, consider files, polishing stones and sand paper a better option than a 4X36" grinder unless modified as above. I wish that I could find that post from the machinest who made that modification, I would deffinantly post the link.

Pedro, I think that if you are ever able to save up to get a purpose built belt grinder or are able to build one you will see, as I did, how superior they are. You are also correct in realizing that knives can be made without any power tools, even with stock removal only. You might take a look at an angle grinder for roughing the profile of the knife as well as the bevels. You can then use files to refine your work then finish up with sandpaper and/or polishing stones. Remember that knives have been made a lot longer with hand tools than power tools, though power tools go a lot farther back in time than many suspect.

Doug
 
Doug Lester: I see what you mean and you're right. About the angle grinder... that's a whole different skill that I personally wouldn't enjoy when it comes to the bevels and files would probably be the way to go for me but on the other hand this sander is not as bad as it seems. With adjusting the tracking how it shouldn't be. I can make the belt move over the edge that I need. It's inconvenient and only works for a couple passes and makes passes slow but hey. I get to practice my maneuver while I save up.
By the way, since I do not have a welder or any experience welding the NWGS grinder looks good for me. What do you think as a grinder for that price?
 
It's a good grinder for the money, if you have the skill to put it together. It does require the ability to drill accurately and to tap some of the holes. You might do a search on the No Weld Grinder and find a few who have built one and ask about their experience. It does give a way to have a KMG like machine without having to lay out the money for a KMG. You might want to go to USA Knifemaker Supply at take a look at the options that Tracy has for building one if you haven't already. Personally, I got a Coote grinder which may not be as flexable but it has done everything that has been asked of it. I might have built a NWG but it wasn't on the market at the time I bought my unit. If you ever get the sander that you have to track well do consider installing a 4" wide platen on it. I don't think Tracy carries anything like that but if you go to www.elliscustomknifeworks.com and then follow the link to the person who bought the business he may be able to cut you glass platen that size. If you can pop rivet or solder a thin sheet of metal with a turned up edge to act as a support you could glue it one with something like JB Weld. Do not use regular glass for a platen. The glass for this is a special high temperature product. It might also take some of the slack out of your belts.

Doug
 
Pedro asked: "Can you save certain posts for reference?" When I want to save a thread I save it to Favorates. Then when new posts are added I go back and save it to Favorates again. Explorer says that it already exists "Do you want to over write it?" Click "Yes".
 
Doug Lester: I'm sorry, I didn't understand the glass platen part.

A steel platen wears quickly. It becomes uneven and can cause all sorts of problems. Even if you use hardened steel, you're gonna eventually have problems with your platen wearing.

One solution is affixing a special piece of glass atop your steel surface.

A glass surface will wear much slower than steel. It will also run cooler. Also, compared to steel, glass is flatter to begin with, and it will stay that way.
Those are the benefits.


Now the downside- it's a piece of glass that can come loose and shatter. So proper installation is critical.

The type of glass used is what is often called "fireplace glass". There are probably several different trade names for it (like Pyrex, etc.), but the idea is glass that has very low thermal expansion. Common applications would include fireplace doors, ovenware (casserole dishes, etc.), oven door windows, etc.


For more info on this application, here are a couple of links:
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?17901-Platen-on-NWG
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/ceramic-glass-platen-liner-flat-platen-2x8x-0192-p-1182.html

Those are just a couple of links to show you what it's all about. If you have trouble obtaining the size you need through your knifemaking supplier, any glass store/supplier should be able to cut a piece sized to whatever dimensions you want. Just remember to tell them you need fireplace glass.

Rob
 
Actually, Rob, what Doug was trying to say is that one would be better off with files than a 4X36" belt sander with grinding belts. I will add the caveat: unless it it modified with a platen the same width as the belt. That way the work can overhang the platen at the edge of the belt. I have done it both way and, admitting that others may have had better luck, consider files, polishing stones and sand paper a better option than a 4X36" grinder unless modified as above. I wish that I could find that post from the machinest who made that modification, I would deffinantly post the link.

Doug


Doug,
Is this the thread you're talking about? (post #5 in this link)
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?17629-Belt-question

It's the only thread I can find where a 4x36 was easily modified to work well for our type of purpose.
 
Wayne,

Cool that there's usually more than one way to skin a cat. I never thought about saving to favorites like that.

When I want to save a thread for reference I click on the "thread tools" link and subscribe to it. The link is at the top of the page on the right side just under the threads title.

Whenever you post in a thread you automatically get subscribed to it (this may be a setting but thats how it works for me)

To locate your subscribed threads just click on the "Quick Links" button at the top of the page then click "subscribed threads"


Way to really help out a newbie Dogs ! Woof woof

-Josh
 
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