Cutting Scales

SYD32

Well-Known Member
I recently was given some ironwood logs. I have tried to cut some scales with my 9-inch Craftsman bandsaw. I can't get the scales to come out even close to straight. they are full of waves. I have been using fence as a guide to keep it straight. Is it me, the saw or a combination? Does anyone have a secret to getting these to come out straight or straighter?

Thanks!
 
SYD32. I feel your pain.. I have been there, and asked similar questions, I was informed I was using the wrong tool for the job.. So, Im gona have to say its the saw.
These smaller saws normally run thiner blades. more for doing curve cuts. and when asked to do a straight cut through thick hard material like Ironwood.. you will run into problems.

I have found that a larger saw running wider blades.. Say 1/2 inch of bigger, work better for this kind of cut. Currently I am using a 14 inch band saw.. and the thinest blades I run are 1/2 inch.. I have found that a 6 to 10 TPI work well for what your trying to do.

You can try a different tooth set on the saw you have and go with the widest blade the saw will allow. and may have better results.

God Bless
Randy
 
If it's a log, I use my table saw and run the log through free hand on one side to get a flat side. Then use the flat cut on the table to rip the rest of the log into a square. (turn 90 degrees each time) Size of the log is limited to the blade height though.

Rudy
 
I recently was given some ironwood logs. I have tried to cut some scales with my 9-inch Craftsman bandsaw. I can't get the scales to come out even close to straight. they are full of waves. I have been using fence as a guide to keep it straight. Is it me, the saw or a combination? Does anyone have a secret to getting these to come out straight or straighter?

Thanks!

You should do two things...........Check to make sure the tension on your blade is real high, and then make sure you go REALLY SLOW, when you cut. You could also consider cutting blocks instead of scales and then cut them a little oversized, and belt sand it down to where it needs to be about 1" thick. Post some pics of your ironwood logs and what you have cut so far..... Larry
 
im with randy i run 14 inch band saw, less teeth less burning removes wood faster.but if i had a table saw i would try that sounds easy er.
 
You mention "wavy" cuts; the very first thing to do is check your blade tension. If the tension is not high enough, the blade will flutter.
This is called "wandering", and will produce the results you describe.

This assumes your saw is up to the task. If tension exceeds design limits of the saw, you will be faced with a variety of problems other than using the proper blade.
Under no circumstances should you bottom out the tension spring.

For these types of cuts, there are two ways to go with the blade selection. Narrow and wide. Stay away from the medium-width blades (e.g., 1/4", 3/8"), as these widths generally produce the most flutter.

Wide blades
Typically, for these types of cuts one would wish to select as wide a blade as possible for increased beam strength, say, minimum of 1/2" wide. The 1/2", 3 TPI hook configuration is pretty much the accepted standard for small resawing applications on the 14" bandsaws.
But your saw needs to meet some minimum design requirements to be effective with that type of blade.
1. The coarse, hook-tooth design will require a bare-minimum 1/2 HP motor.
2. The wheels have to be wide enough to prevent the blade from swaying. Much depends on the wheel crown set forth by the manufacturer.
3. The tension system on the saw has to accommodate increased tension. The wider the blade, the higher the initial tension required.

For these reasons, most of the bandsaws under 12" do not do well with wide blades, especially hook-tooth blades.
If you wish to try a wide blade on a small saw, I would suggest a 1/2", 14 TPI standard-tooth with a slower feed rate. The hard material (ironwood) will need the finer pitch, and the (small) motor should be able to handle the standard tooth design. But remember, most of the small saws are not designed to accommodate the proper tension needed to successfully use a wide blade.

Narrow blades
By "narrow" blades, I'm speaking of blades 1/8" and under.
An old trick is to use a narrow blade with appropriate tension, and set the thrust bearing higher than normal (approx. 1").
Be careful if you use this method, because it exposes more of the blade to your fingers.
The principle behind this is that you are actually taking advantage of the decreased beam strength of the narrow blade. By setting the thrust bearing higher, you are actually wanting the blade to deflect to the rear. This allows a straight cut with a narrow blade if you have the proper feed rate.

All things considered, for the smaller saws I actually prefer the narrow blade approach. I have successfully used the small saws with narrow blades to cut dovetails, crosscuts, and even resawed 4" maple stock.

I'm not sure why they do it, but for some reason manufacturers supply 1/4" and 3/8" blades with their saws. These blades, in my opinion, are not good for straight cuts. If you use the wide blade approach, they do not have enough beam strength. If you want to use the intentional rearward deflection approach, then they have too much!

Here is a checklist for your problems, in order.

1. Sharp blade- no matter the blade design, it has to be sharp. This is even more important with the hard, abrasive material (ironwood).

2. Maximum tension up to manufacturers specs for that blade width. Most people tighten one notch higher, and that's fine as long as you don't bottom out the spring. Both blade life and saw life decrease with higher-than-normal tension levels.
It's very important to release tension after you're done using the saw, especially if you're "over-tightening".

3. Feed rate- experiment to see what works best with your particular combination of blade and material. Many times people go off blaming the blade design, when adjusting the feed rate can help alleviate a poor blade selection.

4. After checking the above, consider going to a different blade design. As I've mentioned, for straight cutting I have never achieved optimal results with the "medium"-width blades.


Good Luck,
Rob
 
Thank you for all of the responses. I can see that my bandsaw is not up to the task. The tension adjustment knob is made of plastic and if I tighten it anymore it will more than likely break. Now I will start my search for a bandsaw that is capable of the work. I have been thinking about a larger bandsaw that is also capable of cutting metal. I saw this one at sears it looks like it will do the job and it fits the budget: Craftsman Professional 1-1/2 hp 15'' Wood and Metal Cutting Band Saw. Any thoughts?
 
Is the fence alinged with your blade? To check this take a squared board about as long as your bandsaw's table. Mark a line down the center of the board lenght wise parrallel to the edge that will be closest to the fence. Freehand (without using the fence) cut the along the line following it as close as possible to about the midpoint of the board. Without moving the board, make a pencil line on the bandsaw's table along the edge of the board closest to the fence. Make sure the fence is aligned to the line you marked on the table. This should be done each time you change your blade if you intend to use the fece. Learning this make a world of difference using my bandsaw.

Greg
 
Thank you for all of the responses. I can see that my bandsaw is not up to the task. The tension adjustment knob is made of plastic and if I tighten it anymore it will more than likely break. Now I will start my search for a bandsaw that is capable of the work. I have been thinking about a larger bandsaw that is also capable of cutting metal. I saw this one at sears it looks like it will do the job and it fits the budget: Craftsman Professional 1-1/2 hp 15'' Wood and Metal Cutting Band Saw. Any thoughts?

Your decision will very much depend on your ability to compromise in one area or another.
Budget is always a concern, but when we start plunking down more than a few hundred (a grand or more), we need to make sure we're gonna stay satisfied with the investment for the long haul.

If you have the room, I would suggest going with two different saws instead of a combination model. The reason I say this is because the differences between cutting wood and metal entail more than simply changing speed and switching blades.

To obtain a straight cut in wood requires less blade tension than making the same straight cut in metal.
Quality cuts in metal require considerable tension because the cutting action on metal is different. Metal requires more force of feed, and the higher the feed force, the more blade tension needed.
A purpose-built metal-cutting bandsaw will have a different style of wheel to accommodate the higher tensions involved.
Everything about the saw will be more robust, from the frame itself, to beefier shafts, bearings, tension systems, and wheel construction.

This is not to say that the combination saws are no good; I am simply saying that you need to keep in mind that compromises are inevitable, and the more compromises we make, the further we stray from optimum cut quality.

For the combo models, the ones that really shine are the industrial models by manufacturers such as DoAll, RollIn, etc.
These guys have tire technology down to a science, and if you look at the weight of their models, you'll soon realize that mass is certainly not overlooked.
But then again we're talking an entry level price of $2k.

The Craftsman model to which you refer is the 22440. I have no experience with it, but a friend has the 22450, a larger model.
Grizzly has the G0621X, which is also in this same price range. Instead of using a gearbox, it uses a VFD for changing blade speed.
And, of course we have the various models by Delta, Jet, etc.

You have not stated your specific needs.
For metal cutting, unless you're needing the extra capacity of a vertical saw for cutting large material such as sheet, etc., many people have done just fine with the small 4x6 horizontal/vertical models, or even the "portaband" models.
You would be surprised how many serious craftsmen have these as the primary metal-cutting saw in their shop!

For a couple hundred $, you can get set up with something specifically designed to cut metal. At this (entry) price level, it will probably require "tuning", and as with most products these days, will require upgrading to a higher-quality blade. But overall, they are really great "bang for the buck". Simply put, they are robust enough in design to accommodate most metal-cutting projects for the small shop.

My observation is this: For the same amount of $ spent on a combination model of dubious quality, you can get a metal-cutting saw that still gets the job done, plus you can also get a high-quality wood-cutting saw.

I have went the combination route before. I have converted existing saws, and have even built a few (talk about a project!).
It's great in theory- one saw for both applications. But I soon found out that, for the ones within most people's budget, the compromises are not worth the hassle.
Changing speeds and blades are not too big of a hassle, but cleaning the saw certainly is!
Other problems I have faced are flexed frames, accelerated bearing wear, broken shafts, wheels going eccentric, and rapid tire wear.
For the designs using a tire, tire wear is a bigger issue than most people think when cutting metal. Ideally, metal cutting will call for a "harder" tire (higher durometer).

If you do go with a combo model, try to get one with cast iron (or steel) wheels.
Also look at shaft size and frame design. You want plenty of strength here (weight of the saw is usually a good indicator).


Naturally, my suggestion of two different saws assumes you have the space for two saws, and you do not have large-dimension, metal-cutting projects.

Whatever you decide, Good Luck.

Rob
 
SYD 32, where are you located? If you're close to Atlanta, or don't mind shipping the logs, i can cut them for you - i have an industrial table saw.

I've found that unless you have a commercial grade wood bandsaw, that cutting logs is really difficult. If you have to choose, i would choose a metal band saw - you can cut both wood and metal on it ;)
 
Thanks for the offer! I live in southern Arizona and I am afraid that the cost of shipping would be outrageous. I am going to try the 1/2" blade and slow down the feed rate. Hopefully that will get me closer to a straight cut, or at least something that is more readily fixed on my sander. I am also looking at a portable bandsaw with a bench top mount from SWAG off road.

Once again thanks for the offer!
 
You're welcome. Yeah shipping would be a killer.

BTW, the SWAG mount is killer! I've had mine for a few months now, and it is great! What portaband are you thinking of getting?
 
Back
Top