Maxim DT-48 Quench oil is available!!!!

McClellan Made Blades

Well-Known Member
Hey Dawgs,
I emailed Lee the other day and asked about the new formula, he told me to get in touch with Seth Barton to see how his tests were doing with the new quench, well, little did I know that Seth Barton is our very own Busted Knuckles! Seth is going to be getting on when he can and share the test data he has from using the DT-48, the numbers are very exciting and we now have a company that does care about us little guys, Thanks to Maxim Oil!! Thanks Dawgs, Rex
 
did you see my back flip I'm so excited
Dang I'm always missing the good stuff, guess I've gotten slow in my old...eerrrr what was I saying? Oh never mind, Glad to hear someone else is interested, we really need to get the word out, I was just talking to Seth and says that this batch was made special for KD! So we really need to support them if want to keep getting it. I'm going to order my 5 gallons as soon as I can, I gotta get my shop put back together, I've been doing some renovations, making a few improvements, that kinda stuff. Rex
 
Before I buy some, I want to make sure it works on 1095 as good as Parks 50 does. Where are those numbers ?
-Thanks
 
(These are rockwell results from the test that were performed from busted knuckles and larry) I finished resanding the pieces sent to me by "busted knuckles" and retested them. The results came out pretty close to the same as before, but I think I can see why. After sanding to 800 I can see shadows in the steel, like a cloud or hamon. I don't know how it happened but I drew a line around the "cloud"and then tested inside and outside the cloud and here are the results. This is for #6 on your list busted knuckles which was the piece quenched in parks 50 and not tempered---- inside the cloud=39.5,43.7,& 32.6 HRC. Outside the cloud=65.75,64.9, & 64 HRC. The rest of the results are as follows---
1.quenched at 1500 in dt48 & drawn at 350 FOR 1 hr=HRC 62.7, 63.5, 63.5
2.quenched at 1500 in dt48 & drawn at 350 FOR 1 hr=HRC 61, 62, 63, 63.25
3.quenched at 1500 in dt48 & not drawn =HRC 67.5,67.5,67.5
4.quenched at 1500 in p50 & drawn at 350 FOR 1 hr=HRC 63.1,63,63
5.quenched at 1500 in p50 & drawn at 350 FOR 1 hr=HRC 62.9,62.75,62.1,61.9
6.quenched at 1500 in p50 & not drawn =HRC 39.5,32.6,43.7,64,64.9,65.75
Just so you know i also tested my machine ,before and after doing your plates, with the test plate that came with it which is HRC 61.7 and my results were always 62 HRC. so pretty close.
Any if you would like to retest some more plates I'd be happy to test them for you again. If you'd like I can send these back to you or try to get some pictures if that would help,just let me know.

Larry
Last edited by L. McAlpine; 01-21-2011 at 11:53 PM.
 
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?13895-Maxim-oil-is-now-selling-Park-50.
Troop, this is the link to the thread that we have been talking about and comparing parks 50 and maxim DT48
Lee from Maxim oil has been very hepful and has redevelop an old formula for a fast quench for us knife makers.
Lee also carries parks at a good price, but several of us are wanting to try the new DT48 and not solely rely on parks as the
only quench to use for fast steel.
I'm still new at this game, and I'm sure one of the more expert makers will give his opinion. But I would rather give my money to someone that is willing to take that extra step and work with us small guys and that has been Lee and Maxim oil
 
O.K. John. Thanks for the reply. I'm also interested in obtaining other oils beside Parks. Don't like to be held hostage by Parks.
 
Hey Dawgs,
I've tied up all day today, I saw the reply asking for the numbers and I believe Seth aka "Busted Knuckles" has taken off for some much need recreation and he's going to go skiing! Yeah in SNOW!!! Crazy rascal! I thought that was for looking at or running from!
Anyway, he gave me permission to reprint and share all of his tests results with anyone! Yeah, he's a pretty nice dude! So below is the email he sent me after Lee Neves sent me to him, not knowing he was 'Busted Knuckles'! I was calling him Mr. Barton! My momma did teach me manners! Check out the numbers, they are pretty impressive, if you have any questions about the test, I'm sorry to say you'll have to wait for Seth. That's why I wanted him to post his numbers, he has been working a lot, and hasn't had much time to get on KD, so I went ahead and put them on for him. Thanks DAWGS! Rex




Hi Rex, I highly recommend DT48 as a fast quench oil. I've been using it exclusively on all of my 1095 and damascus (52100, 5160, 203E and 15N20). for 1095, heat it up to between 100'F and 120'F. for any medium speed quench use it at room temp.
And maxim oil is a great company to deal with. call Carla at 817-293-4-OIL, she'll set you up.
Here's some Rockwell numbers I got when comparing it to Parks #50. as you can see they test almost the same. the only difference I see, and it's an negligible one, it that the #s on the DT48 aren't as uniform as the ones from the #50.


1.quenched at 1500 in dt48 & drawn at 350 FOR 1 hr=HRC 62.7, 63.5, 63.5
2.quenched at 1500 in dt48 & drawn at 350 FOR 1 hr=HRC 61, 62, 63, 63.25
3.quenched at 1500 in dt48 & not drawn =HRC 67.5,67.5,67.5
4.quenched at 1500 in p50 & drawn at 350 FOR 1 hr=HRC 63.1,63,63
5.quenched at 1500 in p50 & drawn at 350 FOR 1 hr=HRC 62.9,62.75,62.1,61.9
6.quenched at 1500 in p50 & not drawn =HRC 39.5,32.6,43.7,64,64.9,65.75

If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.
 
Hey guys, I'm back for a little bit. I thought I'd post the prices and phone number for maxim.
As of 12/29/10, Maxim will offer the following to any who might call:

Duratherm 48- in a 5-gallon pail, 12.50 per gallon(62.50), plus fedex frt.
From Fort Worth, TX

Park # 50- in a 5-gallon pail, 14.50 per gallon(72.50), plus fedex frt.
From Fort Worth, TX


Folks need to ask for Carla(817-293-4-OIL); she takes most credit cards and
will be able to "fixem-up".

Lee Neves from maxim oil made a bunch of this oil because a couple of us asked for it, as opposed to some other oil companys who seem to not want to deal with us small guys.
Larry McAlpine did the RC testing on some pieces of 1095 I hardened, his numbers, which are posted above tell the story better than I can. I've been using Duratherm 48 on 1095 for a couple months now and it's working out well. I've been quenching in about a gallon of oil heated to 100F and I agitate using the slicing method ( the manufacturer recommends mechanical agitation). It seems to be reliable, producing a similar hardness every time and I've yet to crack a blade.
If anyone has any questions please don't hesitate to ask. I'm rather busy these days but I'll try to reply as quickly as I can.
 
Seth and Larry thanks for your reply.
I know you have both been busy and the progress of this quench and the testing
would not have happen if it was not for you two makers. THANK YOU.
I hope you did not mind me posting you test numbers since they were on another thread here.
We owe Lee and Maxim oil a thankyou for his help and going out of his way, and his company in making this DT48 Just for us.
 
Seth and Larry thanks for your reply.
I know you have both been busy and the progress of this quench and the testing
would not have happen if it was not for you two makers. THANK YOU.
I hope you did not mind me posting you test numbers since they were on another thread here.
We owe Lee and Maxim oil a thankyou for his help and going out of his way, and his company in making this DT48 Just for us.

John,
First of all I need to apologize for posting the numbers from Seth without checking to see if anyone else had already done it. I got the notice from KD and went ahead and posted real quick, and didn't have the time to look until today. So, once I went back and read everything that has been posted, I realized that John had beat me to the punch and I basically reposted the same info, for that I apologize.

I knew Seth was working closely with Lee and Maxim, but wasn't aware that Larry McAlpine was involved as well, and we DO owe you 2 guys a huge Thank You. A lot of the time a company is reluctant to do R&D because they don't want to invest the time and (of course) cash to get a product to market, while this wasn't so much the case, with DT-48, as when I talked to Lee he told me there would be no problem for him to whip up a batch, I do believe having the end user available for testing and immediate feed-back had a lot to do with Maxim and Lee getting this to market so quickly, So we do owe Seth and Larry a big THANK YOU as well! Without their willingness to give Lee the immediate feedback on how the product worked I think DT-48 easily could have gotten caught up in the R&D part of bringing a new product to market.

As John says, we do owe Lee and Maxim a huge Thank You, and the only way I can see to do this is by buying DT-48 quench oil, by giving Maxim our full support we can send a message to the knife maker suppling world. Parks/HeatBath has held us hostage for years, most of y'all know how I feel about them, and I was just about going to have to buy some. For the folks that don't know, I called HeatBath when I first started, being new and incredibly naive`about how things worked, I called them to order some, as EVERYONE was saying it was the best stuff to use, what I didn't know was the company was getting away from selling it to just anyone, it may have been that they had so much big business that they didn't want to "fool" with us smaller guys, or their bean counters had decided the cost of selling in small batches wasn't (literally) worth their time. While they still sell it in 5 gallon pails, they will not sell it to anyone that doesn't buy a huge amount, what ticked me off so bad was they actually told me they "didn't want my business"!!!! We all work hard for what money we do have, I'll be D@M&ED if I'm going to give it to anyone that doesn't appreciate it or at the VERY least does NOT want it!!! That's that last time I'm going to say that, it really upsets me that a company could be that arrogant, and I don't need any undo stress in my current condition....that's another story. Rex
 
I appreciate the thanks, I'm just doing my part. my thanks go out to all of you for being a part of this community.

Lee Neves explained to me the position that Park/heat bath is in. the liability they incur by selling a light oil that a person will drop a red hot piece of metal in to is very great. they just cant sell to anyone who calls, they assume we'll all burn ourselves up. on the same note, Maxim oil is taking on that liability.
 
I've been quenching Damascus made out of 5160, 52100, 203e and 15n20 with Dt48 at room temp. I was getting some good results on thicker material but recently quenched some folder blades and they warped during the quench. I would recommend a slower quench on this combination of materials and I wouldn't quench 52100 in DT48. check out Bob Engnath's site here http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm for a great HT recipe for 52100.
 
This is the problem, there is no oil (singular), that will ideally quench both, just as there is no single size of denim jeans that will fit both a 120lb gal and a 400lb girl. There are oils for each speed, it is all about specialization, that is why these specific oils work so well for their target steels. Some would say that canola oil, ATF, 5w-30 etc... will quench them all but a good pair of channel locks will fit just about any size bolt, and gouge it all up or strip it in the process, but an actual 1/2" boxed end wrench is what will work the best for a 1/2" bolt. It is, of course, much cheaper just to get a single pair of channel locks, but an experienced mechanic will tell you that the investment in a set of wrenches is worth it in the long run.

That being said, if one simply cannot obtain both a medium speed oil and a fast oil it is probably best to err on the side of caution and get the faster oil and modify your quenching procedure with something like an interrupted quench for the 5160 and 52100, this may reduce some distortion. It is a choice between not fully hardening the steel (loss of edge retention) or warping or cracking. For me warping or cracking are not as scary since I can see them and not sell the knife, but a less than fully hardened blade may get by and make it into the hands of a customer, which would be much worse.

My experience has shown that damascus distortion is often much more in the steel combinations than in the heat treatment or quenching medium. 15n20 is basically 1075 with nickel added and heat treats accordingly, 203E is not meant to harden at all, mixing these with deeper hardening steels will greatly amplify any distortion issues from the quench medium. One of the worst, that use to be quite popular, was L6 and 1095, which couldn't be more extreme. I was told I was full of it by many a maker using this totally mismatched mix when I pointed out the tug of war that would ensue on quenching, but funny how many of those makers wasted no time in switching to 15n20 as soon as they could find it.

W1, W2, and any 10XX series steel- Parks #50 or perhaps this DT-48, although I have not tested it to verify the speed.
5160, 52100, O-1, L6 etc...- Parks AAA, Brownell's, McMaster Carr, Chevron's medium speed oil or perhaps even many of the household oils used as a substitute.

I recently have been running tests to zero in on the ideal preheat window for Parks #50 and have seen results I never even thought possible, those folks at Heat Bath have a chemistry going on that is going to be pretty darned hard to beat without just using brine or water.
 
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Kevin, I'm new to knife making and I think most of my blades are probably going to be larger fixed blades in 5160, 52100, 1095 or O-1...after reading your post, I was checking out the McMaster Carr site and they have 2 different quench oils...an 11 second and a 28 second....which would you recommend for these steels?....I'm assuming the 11 second....

Also, my mentor says he likes to quench in olive oil heated to about 120...he has been teaching me differential heat treating with it. I would like your input on the olive oil. I think his main reasons for using it is that it's reasonably priced and he says that it's a "clean" quench and doesn't leave much scale on the blade....I am just wanting to learn about as many aspects as I can...and possibly find a better quenchant than the olive oil....

I am also wanting to learn how to make those really gorgeous hamons like Don Fogg.....I know, I know, I dream BIG!..:60:....I have read his website...are there any other good tutorials about hamons?......My mentor hasn't delved into making hamons much......Thanks..
 
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