Bought first real grinder, help with accessories and set up?

feraldude

Active Member
So I just ordered the Grizzly "knife" Belt grinder
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Knif...r-Buffer/G1015

I ordered some 60 grit and 150 grit belts and a cleaning block...
What else do I need to do some serious knifemaking on it (up until now I forge my own blades and until now have just used files for setting the bevel)...

What accessories do I need? What should I add to the side attachment as far as buffing or sanding wheels? Is there a jig to easily use to set the bevel or do I just go by hand? Any advice on how to get the most out of the belt grinder would be greatly appreciated. :les:
 
For one, you will need some finer grinding belts unless you will be going to do hand sanding after hardening and tempering the blade. I think a better combination for the course belts would be 60 and 220 grit or maybe 80 and 220 grit with that fast of a machine. If you want to do finishing on the grinder after heat treating then I would suggest that you get a 220 grit belt like the Norax which is not as agressive as something the Norton Blaze belts. The next grit that I would get is 400 grit or equivalent. Past there it will depend on how fine of a finish you want to put on the blade. You may want to sand out to 600-800 grit if you want to buff to a mirror finish. I grind out to 400 grit and then use a Scotbrite belt to put a satin finish on my blades. Of course you can do some of the finer sanding by hand if you wish. A pyroglass platen liner might be good but you will have to put a little ledge on the bottom of your platen to make sure it doesn't fly off if the adhesive fails. Others who have done this will have to tell you how as my grinder came with both installed.

As far as a jig to set your primary bevels with, you should be doing this while forging if you are doing a flat or convex grind. You can either free hand or use a jig for hollow grinding. Do a search on here and other blade sites to learn more. There was a man who advertised a jig for grinding on the secondary bevels but that can also be done by hand. I use a filing guide when I grind to establish my plung lines if my blade has one. I just use this while I'm doing my rough grinding. After I heat treat I'm just very carefull that I have the belt adjusted to the edge of the platen and I make sure that I don't go past the plunge line while grinding the bevels. I also have found it useful to grind the flats of the blade before I grind the bevels on both the roungh and fine grinding.

For buffing, you will have to have a different buffing wheel for each compound that you use. I only buff my handles and furniture so I only use one buffing compound. Sewn buffs are less likely to grab you blade and throw it. Make sure that you use the buffer with the wheel turning towards you from the top and you ALWAYS buff on the lower half of the wheel. Something like strips of old carpet of old grinding belts in a box below and behind the buffer will catch a thrown blade without bouncing it back towards you. A buffer is probably the most dangerous tool in the average knife shop.

Doug Lester
 
USA Knife makers has a great how to select belts article that I used, Also a great place to deal with and shipping was fast and accurate.

I started with full flat grinds, pretty easy to do freehand and they have turned out well. Then I went to convex full grinds, again pretty easy to do. Now im doing scandi grinds that I actually made a jig for after seeing one made by someone at fiddle back forge. Its easy to do and is just a 12.5 degree angled piece of wood almost butted in to the belt.

Now im forging most everything, I really like the feeling I get and enjoy the art of it.

Im still very new myself but here are a few invaluable tips these guys have given me.

Mark a center line, your eye is just not that good.
Take the blade edge to a 45 otherwise it will eat belts like the cookie monster.
Dont go to thin on the blade edge before heat treat (Trust me I have a stack of soft knives that im scared to heat treat)
Start small, if your first blade is only 2 inches you can learn the grinder without trying to keep an even flow.
PLUNGE CUTS, Darn it they can make so angry, just don't rush it and mark them.
do your weak side first, its easier to match with your strong side.
Start with cheap easy steel, As I said I have a bucket of blanks that cost me 20-30 bucks maybe.
 
Thanks so much for the great info guys...SO appreciated.
Son of Liberty: could you describe the scandi grind/jig a bit more? Also, I forge also and get the bevels pretty close, what is your process after forging as far as the use of your belt grinder? Last one: Plunge cuts: How do you like to do them?

Thanks for that word of caution on the buffing wheel, I would have totally underestimated that sucker. Would a drum sanding attachment be good on that for handles and woodworking?
 
I'm sure that the more options you had available the better off you would be. I chuck up a small barrel sander in the drill press and use it until I get a small wheel attachment for the grinder. To shape the handle I use the belt grinder and cheap AO belts, this was recommended in the USA knife makers write up of belts to get.

The scandi grind jig is just a block of wood , cut it at 12.5 degrees or close to that and mount it on the work table on the grinder, if you have one. then just lay the blade on the flat part of the wood and grind to the center line , perfect angle and no shiners over a stone.

Plunge cuts, at this time I make the belt track just about an 8th of an inch off the platen and use the bend the belt make to form the plunge.

After I forge I harden and then use the grinder as I would a file, it actually feels like overkill sometimes but the idea of going back to a file is not very tempting. Mostly lately I have been using the norax belts to make the blade pretty.

Im pretty darn new to this as well , some of the others might be able to help to a greater extent.

I don't have a buffer , but I can already see the threat.
 
feraldude,

I have one of those Grizzlys. The belts I got with it were worthless. Get some quality belts like Doug Lester mentioned. I get my belts at truegrit. There are other places too. I'm sure other KnifeDogs will post their suppliers.

The next VERY important thing to do is to replace the graphite pad on the platen with a ceramic one. I got mine at Ellis Custom Knife Works. Great place to get stuff. The graphite one is too soft and you get an uneven grind and drive you nuts.

The Grizzly has one speed: Fast. So practice on some wood and scrap metal to get a feel for working with the grinder.

for the handles, I use the grizz for roughing it out. I will often take off the platen and use a slack belt for handles. I prefer to to the final shaping by hand using files and sand paper.

Oh yeah, I wear a baseball cap because sanded part of my forehead when I leaned in too far one day. Now my hat gives me a little safety reminder. Stay safe.


Ric
 
Feraldude,
You mentioned wanting to get a jig to help grinding, amd most of the makers on KD will say to grind by hand. At least learn to grind by hand, which isn't easy to learn. With me being blind in one eye, I had some serious problems with depth perception. I tried several so called jigs, and basically gave up on them, until I saw Fred Rowe's "Bubble Jig'', to me it's worth twice the price, it will give you a guide to help you learn how to grind by hand, after a few months of using it, I now use it mostly to check my angles, not that I'm great at grinding, it showed me the how and where to hold the blade to the grinder, you can find it at bubblejig.com, I think that's it, or you could Goggle it, Fred is on KD as well, and is awesome to do business with! On his site he also has youtube videos that show you how to use it, along with written instructions when you buy one. The costs you say? The last time I looked at them they were 35.00 bucks, it's built very sturdy and takes all the guess work out of grinding, try this in your goggle search, bubble jig/knifedogs/fredrowe , that should pull up his posts here on KD, then you can see the testimonials, there are some great ones on there, you won't regret this purchase!
There are several tips in grinding that will save a lot of headaches, the most important in my mind is learning to use only your body to move the blade across the belt, NEVER use your arms, tuck both elbows in tight, approach the belt, set your bubble (if you get the bubble jig) as close as you can to the middle, then gently make contact, once you start your grind you basically lean to the right or left, the tip you got above about starting on your non dominate hand (side) first is great advice, most beginners will nail the grind on their dominate hand side with no problem then have fits trying to make the other side match it, it's easier (NOT EASY) to do it this way. Grinding takes a lot of time to learn, get some of
Aldo's 1084fg, http://njsteelbaron.com/shop, it's the very best beginner steel there is ,experienced makers love it as well, not expensive, and easy to HT. And I think
1/4" is the right thickness to learn on, if you don't use a lot of pressure you have a lot of room to correct errors. The trait that the best makers in the world posses, is the determination to not give up, there is'nt very much in the way of skills that will give anyone more of an edge when it comes to grinding. Practice, practice, practice, the do it all again, while your first may not be a great blade do your best to finish it, don't get too caught up in being perfect, get 1 completed, when it's done look for the things to correct or improve on. I found myself attempting to get my first one so perfect, that I spent a month or 2 not ever getting to learn the rest of the steps in making a knife, once I realized it was going to take getting several under my belt to learn the entire process, I went ahead and finished knives that today I would scrap, but I had to get to the point of having a standard. Once I got the things that I needed to get better at, I would focus on another area that needed attention, it will all come together, if you decide ahead of time to never quit, Hard nosed determination will benefit you more than anything, well, except for these Dawgs on KNIFE DOGS!!!! These guys are solid GOLD!!!!! Hope this helps, Rex
 
With a Grizzly:
#1 Wear a hat, just add this to your list of safety gear you put on before you turn the grinder on.

#2 Order a platen from USAknifemaker.com, yours is a headache. You’ll wear a grove in it very quick.

#3 If you ordered you belts from Grizzly they are NOT for metal, but work on wood really well. Order your belts when you order your platen.

#4 Sanding drum is good for roughing in the handle material, but I use mine as a handbrake to stop the belt for belt changes.

This thing is FAST so take you time and have a big bucket of water to keep your knives cool. Once you learn to grind on this you’ll be good on a real grinder made for knife making.

Rex looks like you and I have the same problem: Two pirates in the pound:chris:
Have looked at Fred’s jig for a while now, hoping I might get lucky and win one, but I might just have to order me one.
 
Rex looks like you and I have the same problem: Two pirates in the pound:chris:
Have looked at Fred’s jig for a while now, hoping I might get lucky and win one, but I might just have to order me one.

Delta,
I really don't understand what you mean, To pirates in the pound? Can you explain?
 
Rex,
I too am blind in one eye and know what you mean by serious depth perception, like none.
Being dawgs and one eyed :chris: = pirates in the pound
 
Rex,
I too am blind in one eye and know what you mean by serious depth perception, like none.
Being dawgs and one eyed :chris: = pirates in the pound

OOOHHHH I see....err yeah, I didn't mean to make a joke there but I actually caught it right away, I treat the most serious things (about me) with humor, ask anyone that's met me, unfortunately I don't have a patch! Really don't need one, I guess thats a good thing, except for the fact that I'm a big fellow, and I didn't lose my sight until 04' had a rough time getting my bearings 9still do sometimes), and STILL bump into people, usually little white haired ladies that weigh 90 pounds, so far I've none have hit the floor, a patch might let them know I have a blind side. My eye still tracks like normal, ,looks normal (as I can), so there is no way to tell that I can't see, some folks reading this will say, "I couldn't tell". If your having any problems with grinding the Bubble Jig will help so much. I have a smallish Bowie I'm working on, with a long clip, it's HT'd with a pretty nice hamon, hand sanding is almost complete, and I notice the false edge had 36 grit marks in it, the best way I could think of to take them out and get a good crisp line was to use my belt grinder, I set the blade on my flat surface, took my angle finder and got a good idea what the angle was, 35degrees was good for both sides, stacked up the required thingy's that Fred includes with the kit, it took 4 of them, got my jig set, and proceded to grind the best false edge I have ever done. Never thought of doing that way until I watched one of Fred's videos, took me all of 10 minutes too. That is a huge point in my case as I will spend an enormous amount of time on one blade. My thinking is that I'm still a newb, still learning AND I want it to be FUN. So I take my time, I don't get into any kind of rush, I put zero pressure on my self to make another blade, because that will take away the enjoyment, I know that at the speed I make knives I won't be able to sustain a business, but I'm not there yet. I'm still in what I call the, "Sponge Phase", where I soak up everything I possibly can. Learning is fun to me, and being able to apply something I've learned, and actually see tangible evidence of it is thrillling. I think Fred should rename or a better way to put it is reclassify the Bubble Jig, as a learning tool. Or maybe a guide, because it's won't do it for you, you still have to hold it in your hands, you still have to learn the right pressure and the right way to use your body to move the blade. So maybe, "The Bubble Guide", or how about the,
"Knifemakers Ultimate Kit to Learning How to Grind Knives In No Time Flat Device", OK, thats a bit long, but to me that's what it does. There are several people that have left feedback on it, the best one that sticks out in my mind is from Wayne Coe, who had a small group of (I think) kids that he was teaching to make knives, they all wanted to make a dagger, the most difficult blade to make, correctly. using the Bubble Jig, it was a breeze, Wayne even said it made him look like he didn't know what he was talking about, because he told his students that a dagger was too difficult for beginners, using the Jig made it so easy for them that they were saying, "I thought you said this was a hard knife to make!?" That is a testament to the usefullness of this tool, I can't stress it enough how much this little tool can improve your ability to be successsful within the first 5 or so attempts. I'm not saying it will do it for you, it's not easy, it's just easier, and being monocular, almost required. I know it has helped me to the point that I can almost grind without it, I sometimes brealk the spine on my grinds without it, but the angle is usually not bad. I'll go ahead and say this also, I don't benefit from the sales of them in anyway. I enjoy helping newbies, as I feel I'm still a newb myself, making knives for a year and a half isn't experience, BUT, in the same spirit that so many have stepped up and helped me, I feel like it would be an insult to those same people if I didn't share the knowledge that they so freely shared with me, provided I know what about the topic, if I don't know about the subject I usually keep quiet, unless noone else has stepped up to help out. The I'll share my limited knowledge on the subject and note that as well.

I guess we need to come up with some good pirate names, and a patch! Nah, no patch for me, but a cool name would be awesome, hmm, Jack Sparrow is taken....Bootstrap Billl doesn't quite fit, I dont know any others, of than Blue Beard or was it Black Beard? I don't have a beard, but I do have a goatee, maybe Platnium Blond Goatee, some people say grey, I say I'm going blond! That doesn't have much of a ring to it though.

Anyway, go ahead and get the tools you can afford, DON'T buy the expensive items until your ready to do it AND can afford it, if you invest a large sum of cash into it, you will put pressure on yourself to produce and unneeded pressure to try to recoup some of the investment. I don't sell many of my knives just yet, I've sold a couple, so I could buy more supplies. Eventually I will, but only the very best that I make will have my name on them. In both quality and beauty. The most important thing to me is to enjoy it, not to make it a chore or a job, I hope to one day derive some sort of income form it, but I don't want to make knives that only the rich can afford, I would love to make a few of the 2000 dollar knives, who wouldn't? I want to make a top quality affordable custom blade for those that can't pay huge amounts. The folks that can and do, have paid an enormous price to get to that place, the flow of cash is usually only out for new makers, at some point you hope to help support the addiction, and as the makers skill level improves the chance to recoup some of the investment made might present itself. Right now, learn EVERYTHING YOU CAN, enjoy yourself, if you find that you have to make yourself go to work on a blade, take a step back and use that time to study. Never force it, your work will suffer, that is the reason I don;t take orders, well one of them. Eventually it will become a necessary evil, one that I will put off as long as possible, it takes away my artistic expression, it forces a predetermined outcome that won't allow new discovery. Sometimes, when forging, I look at the blade a and think, it might look better or perform better if I did this, if the outcome is predetermined and expected at a certain time, that creative freedom is lost. So get into the "Sponge Mode", study everything you can , find a maker that's close, and make them your friend, don't be afraid to offer to clean their shop, or split firewood, or whatever they might need, while most maker will share their knowledge freely, show them you appreciate it, it will pay dividends in the future. If I can help in anyway, please feel free to ask, if I know the answer, I'll gladly share it, if I don't I wil say I don't. There is no shame in ignorance when it comes to knife making, while some things might look like common sense, there are few things in making a knife that are. You've heard the saying, "There are no dumb questions, except the one that wasn't asked.", that applies to knifemaking to a point, it is expected that you do your own research, showing you have the desire to go find info that is already out there, saves you time and the same folks that'll be helping you time and frustration. I've seen it many times on another forum, and it makes complete sense, that the newbs look for answers before asking, and then if you have a question, or need better understanding, fire away. If you look at the top of each forum sub-catagory, you'll see ''Sticky Notes", these are pearls of wisdom/knowledge/how to's/ WIP's/ that will answer questions that you didn't knwo you had, fantastic information, right in front of you. Someone has to point that out to me, as I was in too big of a rush to stop and read them, in a hurry to get back to the shop I almost missed an enormous resource. So enjoy yourself, no matter what your doing in the process ask yourself, "Am I having fun", if not take a small break, there wil beaspects of the process that will drive you CRAZY, work on those the hardest so you can master the skill faster and not have to spend a lot of time on them, for me it's handsanding, even though I still take far too long to handsand a blade, it is frustrating AND one of the important parts of "Fit and Finish", I've run on too long, if you need anything, feel free to PM me, I'll be happy to help any way I can, Rex
 
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