Elmax Super Steel from Uddeholm - How are we going to distribute 40 bars to test?

BossDog

KnifeDogs.com & USAknifemaker.com Owner
Staff member
Uddeholm is a large steel company that puts out massive amounts of steel. The problem is they haven't made much headway into the custom knife market due to not having a distribution method geared for us. I talked to them three times at the Blade show last spring. They made some changes to their distribution process and I made some concessions to my "asks".

These guys have some fantastic steels that would be good for the custom knife market. I finally got hooked up with them, worked out some logistics issues and have several hundred pounds of assorted steel shipping next week.

I also asked them to give me some Elmax steel to hand out for testing.

They came up with 50 bars of .148"x1.5"x10" to give away! :biggrin:

(I am holding back 10 bars for testing myself:nothing:)

but I need some help figuring out a couple things. :confused2:

1. How do I get this steel out to makers that will make a knife out of it and test it? We need to see how tough this steel is and how well it holds an edge.

2. Since this is new and we need to make a little noise about this stuff to help get it off the ground, how do we do that? Marketing baby. The best steel in the world isn't any good if no one knows about it.


What if we gave out one (or two) bars and (one) came back as a finished knife to KnifeDogs and was raffled off with all proceeds going to prizes for the build off winners?

Can we have a tough knife contest?

What else can we do?

Some back ground on this steel.
It is double vacuum smelted particle technology steel. Very much like some of the CPM stuff.

Composition is: C 1.7, Si 0.8, Mn 0.3, Cr 18.0, Mo 1.0, V 3.0
Lots of chrome for corrosion resistance. 3% Vanadium fine grain, tough carbides. Plenty of carbon.

Talking to the factory VP, he says to get this to 62RC since it is so tough it shouldn't chip out. That hardness gives it huge edge holding. Drop it to 59RC and it's tough as heck.

I'll attach two files here. One is heat treating information, another is a general information brochure. Download it and save a copy for reference.

So, how we going to do this?

Suggestions?
 

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I'm in whatever you do .
I'll give more thought to it later , though . I'm still working out the kinks in my own GAW...​
Thanks , Bill​
 
Is this a good candidate for plate quenching? If so I would be into doing a test/evaluation piece out of this if you go that route.
 
Hey Boss,
How about a sign up for 20 builders who will get 2 bars each. They can test one and build one for a build off contest, they can be judged all at once with a poll thread. After judging I think we can do a mass raffle where everyone buys spots and we pull winning numbers, maybe one a day for twenty days and also draw a random number for a knife and that's the one you win. All the proceeds can be split between the winners like 50%, 30%, and20%.

This gets it done pretty quickly and we don't have to drag out the raffles until everyone is dead broke. Plus we can give the money away before the knives are passed out. I'm thinking $1.00 a spot so we can get the numbers up high. We can do it all from photos and the builders can send the knifes to the raffle winners and save all the double handling.

I also say we get it done in time to get the winners their money by Christmas, if possible, so their families can enjoy it also.

Of course, I am a glutton for punishment so I will volunteer to run this, If I can help.

Steve
 
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Hmmmmmm, maybe a "no limit" raffle where we use a random number generator to pick the winner as opposed to a lottery? At $1.00 each, I bet we can sell lots of spots if we don't limit the numer of spots. I'm in for 20 spots if we do.
 
Is this a good candidate for plate quenching? If so I would be into doing a test/evaluation piece out of this if you go that route.

It is but it needs a fast quench. You would need make sure and shoot compressed air in between the plates on the "edge".
 
if I can get a piece big enough I can make a competition cutter out of it. I currently use M4 but am always up for something better.
If that’s not an option I would still like to be part of what ever you decide.
Here is a pic of my new cutter cpm m4
Dan
 

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Hi BOSS DOG.
If I got a 5" piece I could make up a nice plain folder with scales, no bolsters, for the Dogs to get someone to test or give as a gift. Frank
 
I've been very intressted in this steel but haven't been able to test it myself, but have spoken to a few makers around here in scandinavia and all seem to love it.

I would be very intressted to test out "knifemaker" heattreating.
Compare sokingtime/hardness and compare plate/oil/airquench.

Cryo or high temptempering etc...


Since elmax isn't that common for blades yet, the data sheet's recommndation might not be the best for blades...
 
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I have been interested in building a competition cutter. From what I understand there needs to be two or three blades built and one without scales.
Then I would just have to find someone to use it in competition. I have a guy in mind to ask!!

That would be a fast way to show the steel off, There is a lot of people who watch or keep up with the competition.

I feel that giving a bunch of steel to people and raffling it off wont really do a whole lot for the "marketing" of the steel as
things would be kept in the community of this website.
Sounds like you are wanting everyone to know about it. I would say to do a certain small amount of builds and raffles, maybe a few specialized builds like a
competition cutter and show pieces, Also not a bad Idea to have a blade or two tested like the ABS testing is done. But do it in a very public
place like...........the blade show!!
Also you can have a few around different parts of the country to go to all of the shows. Bring some to the Badger show!!

If I think of more I will let you know!!

No matter what, you know I would be interested in trying it out!!
 
Hi BOSS DOG.
If I got a 5" piece I could make up a nice plain folder with scales, no bolsters, for the Dogs to get someone to test or give as a gift. Frank

Frank, that would be generous of you. What I'm hoping is we can raise some money for big prizes to give some incentive for a creative contest to test the steel and give it some exposure. A folder from the stuff would go well in a raffle towards a prize.

I'd also like to consider designating a portion of the funds to go to a specified charity but we are just trying to get some ideas at this point.

I've been very intressted in this steel but haven't been able to test it myself, but have spoken to a few makers around here in scandinavia and all seem to love it.

I would be very intressted to test out "knifemaker" heattreating.
Compare sokingtime/hardness and compare plate/oil/airquench.

Cryo or high temptempering etc...


Since elmax isn't that common for blades yet, the data sheet's recommndation might not be the best for blades...

Where this steel has been used, I've heard great things about it. The factory rep is going to get with some of the metalurgists this weekend and come up with a "knife makers" heat treat recipe.

They are taking a big risk here. If some one doesn't heat treat this stuff properly and then a test knife doesn't hold up, that is a big problem. The steel gets an undeserved bad reputation. Who ever gets a bar needs to have experience heat treating or they will need to send it off to be fair to Udderholm. If someone heat treats a blade of CPM154 and it doesn't hold an edge, most every one can be sure the heat treat wasn't good and doesn't challenge the quality of the steel. CPM154 has been out long enough and has a high quality reputation so the steel isn't questioned, the heat treat is. A brand new steel (to our market) is going to be questioned long before the heat treat is. We'll need to ensure heat treating is good.
 
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I will be interested to hear what the reps say about heat treating for cutlery purposes. I have been plate quenching my A2 and using compressed air between the plates to speed the cooling on the areas that are not contacting the plates. I suspect that this would be more effective if the blade(s) were removed from the foil pouch first but have not tried this yet, it dosen't seem to be much of an issue with A2. If we are looking for a somewhat faster quench with this steel it may be worth a shot though.
 
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Send all blades to the manufacturer for heat treating, then you know that part is done correctly. Then the blade will have to speak for itself.

Bob
 
Send all blades to the manufacturer for heat treating, then you know that part is done correctly. Then the blade will have to speak for itself.

Bob

We discussed that initially. They know what it can do and have metallurgists and extensive testing data to back it up. We need to see what it does in the wild. Still, I think we'll need to have some sent to commercial heat treat like Brad's to make sure we have that experience also.
 
For what it's worth, I have several hundred pounds of it on the way and will have it listed (hopefully) by the end of the week on www.USAKnifemaker.com

I do NOT have prices set yet but I expect it will be competitive with the CPM steels.


I have the following thicknesses coming: .1488", .1795", .2047", .2362" I have these coming in bars of 1.5" and 4" wide. The length will be 30"
I'm not sure why they carry the thickness spec's out to four digits. They just do. I haven't checked to see how flat it really is. When it comes in, I'll put a mic to it.
 
I would be interested in taking this stuff for a test drive! I would like to make a build off knife for a raffle. That would be great.
 
Boss, I would really like to get in on the build (hunter/camp knife based on the thickness). I could also put it through its paces with pics for testing in the Daniel Boone National Forest. I'll send it off to whomever you recommend for heat treating. YouTube might be one way to market it as the new "Super Steel" with an appropriate video. Posting test results on other forums could be another way to get the word out.
 
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