Anyone know about old pianos and if the keys are ivory?

Bob Warner

KNIFE MAKER
I can get an old piano for free. I do not know how old it is and am curious what the chances are the key have ivory on them.

I also do not know how thick the ivory on key is but I would think they would work for folder scales.

Anyone know anything about this?

Here is the ad for the piano (Dallas guys please do no run down there and take it).

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/zip/1904488428.html

I searched the piano name and serial but did not get any returns.

Is there a way to tell if the keys are true ivory (a test)?

Also what are the black keys made of and are the laminates or solid?

I can arrange a visit right away if there is a chance for ivory keys. I would scrap the rest of the piano except for some of the wire as it makes good springs for autos.

Any help will shine some light and help me decide what to do.
 
Logrus9 is right, the ivory keys have just a veneer on the top surface. The ones I've seen probably weren't 1/16" thick. I've been told that you can soak the keys in the bathtub and the glue will break free. The ivory will warp, but you put them on a flat surface with newspaper around them and lay a heavy book on them to flatten them. Now that's old hearsay so don't hold it against me! A scrimshander I knew told me that he salvaged ivory for his work this way.

Don't know what the black keys are. Traditionally they were probably ebony.

An old test for ivory is to spit on it and rub it with your finger or hand. If it got slick it was some plastic, but if it actually felt like there is a tackiness it's ivory. Cracks or other checks would also be a give-away. So would the smell after grinding it.

For all the trouble it will take to get some thin strips of old elephant ivory, it's my opinion that you'd be better off just buying folder scale material from an ivory seller. You'd still have to dispose of the rest of the piano after you took the keys. Free is nice most of the time, but sometimes it's a big pain in the butt!

David
 
I found a web page that said that the laminates are 0.03 thick, WAY to thin. But I also learned that the keys made of Ivory are two pieces, one wide one and one thin one where the key narrows and there is a line where the pieces join. Plastic keys are one piece.

I was hoping I found a gold mine but no such luck.

Thanks.
 
I'm not an "expert" on old pianos but I am an experienced player and have seen and played on enough to know that the piano in question most likely doesn't have ivory keys. Ivory is generally only seen on higher end grands, ones that run at least $60,000+ on the low end. The only exception is pianos that happen to be quite old, which is possible with this one but unlikely due to the quality of the instrument. Aeolian pianos could be likened to say Harbor Freight tools. Even so, if it's old enough it's possible. I don't make folders but I can tell you that the ivory used on piano keys isn't more than 1/16". I don't think that would be thick enough for folder scales but then again, I've never done a folder. Again, on higher end pianos, the black keys a solid Ebony or a Grenadilla but on this one they are more likely to be maybe a stained Maple. I've never known any to be laminates though. If you end up going to see it, a look at the keys should tell you whether or not they are ivory. Ivory will yellow with and should have lines in it, similar to wood grain. Plastic will of course stay the same color and is a lot shinier than ivory keys. If the piano is close to you it may be worth your time but don't get you hopes up. Hope this helps you out some.
 
OK, the people responded to my request for info. The keys are PLASTIC. They knew when I asked if they were one or two piece what I wanted. I thanked them and told them I could not use it. Nice people though.
 
If you need ivory inlay material that is good and LEGAL, check out cuecomponents.com. This guy has been collecting the stuff for over 40 years.
 
I think I tell this story,each time I hear something about a piano.

When I was a kid,my sister was learning to play the piano.The church that we attended,had a piano they were going
to give away,it was one of those with the high back,and very,very heavy.Mom said it was just what my sister needed.
As most of the time happens,my sister practiced on it,for about a year,after which,it just stood there collecting dust.
After about 2 years of sitting,we were sleeping one night,when around 1am one of wires broke,it took dad about 2 seconds
to get up and see who was trying to break in our home.The rest of us threw the covers over our head,and were to scared
to move.Imagine,at 1 in the morning,total silence in our old wood frame house.It was a sound like we had never heard.This happen
several times,over the next 6-8 months,and Dad was not happy.
One Saturday morning,Mom and the other 2 kids,had gone to town.Dad tells me,that we were going to get this piano out of our house.
I ask did he have any help comming,because I know I remember at least 6 men bringing this thing into our home,he smiled and said,that
me and him could get it out.We rolled it to the front door and got it on some boards,keep in mind,I am just a kid,and dad had no patiance
and was very hot-headed.He gets his truck and a long chain,he tells me to hook the chain and back up.He pulls ahead and just as it
is going to fall out the door,he guns the gas,and when it hits the ground it burst into several pieces,that were small enough for us to
handle............That was the first and last piano in our home.
Sorry for taking so long to tell this.

God bless,Keith
 
Bob,
I ran into a deal like that a couple yrs ago, I went to check it out (baby grand)and saw that the keys were way too thin for my purposes. The harp was cast iron, no use to me either (boat anchor) so I walked away. It wasn't untill I got home and running it through my head that I realized that I saw some gorgeous wood inside that thing. So try looking past the ivory and maybe wind up with lots of knife handles.

Good luck,
Rudy
 
Keith, you trying to make me spit coffee?
That is a funny tale, gotta be true. Too wild to make up.
Still laughing! Dozier

my father kicked a hole in our front door once, so I hear ya.
 
I used to work with a lot of ivory , that is until it got so expensive. Most of your older piano keys are ivory and ebony. Its diffficult to tell difference . That is unless you know the difference . look closely at these pics and notice the parallel lines on ivory , only real ivory has them . color is also a " key" nice and yellow not white if is old and been exposed to the elements . Ivory is white only when its fresh cut . I f you get enough keys , you can glue them together to make larger pieces. sometimes you have to view through jewelers loupe. I vory has lines in it because it grows in layers like wood .
 
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+1 on the salvageable wood!
if it's early 1900 or older,it's gonna have nice old-growth wood,
which you can use almost all it for various things
(cool retro jewelry boxes,etc).
I just helped a woman out recently,and she had an old upright piano.
The entire face has what I first thought was some incredible book-matched,spalted,flame maple veneer
but on closer examination turned out to be solid,1/2" to 3/4" thick wood!
And,it was all from the same huge slab of wood!!!!!!!!
I didn't have time to ask her anything about it,but I could tell it was a custom/special order
instrument,as I've NEVER seen that kind of solid wood,especially spalted maple,on a piano before.
(I worked in an antique restoration shop once,and saw enough to know this was something special).
 
If it is old enough- the harp should be brass, maybe bronze
It would have to be a couple of hundred years old. All modern pianos, which is to say post 1850-60 have cast iron frames that are either bronzed or painted.. The total tension on the strings of a modern overlapped Steinway type grand is about 20,000 lbs.
 
Most of your white keys on old pianos are actually wood overlayed with ivory. IIRC, on Steinways they are Bavarian spruce and the new pianos have black and white polymer coatings. Modern pianos like the top of the line Steinway 9 foot D series grand has a shell made from up to 16 layers of steam bent rock maple. They have been made that way since the mid to late 1800's. Any exotic wood exterior is veneer. Black pianos are not ebony, but satin or gloss finish over top of the maple. The legs, etc would be solid wood of whatever species of veneer they were using for the case. The soundboard is Sitka spruce and the bracings etc, are maple or spruce, IIRC. There are no real exotic woods used to make the working parts of even the best piano because the more "mundane" ones give the best sound in that application.
 
Interesting to know some of this stuff.

The total tension on the strings of a modern overlapped Steinway type grand is about 20,000 lbs.

WOW, could you imagine the power stored in a piano. It does not look like there is that much stored energy just sitting there under tension for all those years.
 
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