PERIOD KNIVES ????

T

tu tone tommy

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We just moved back home after years of traveling. We wanted to be close to my mom since she is 88 years old & needs help with things. We have owned a place here. So the RV got backed in & we unloaded.
I was up visiting an old friend. He is a collector. He has inspired me to start building PERIOD KNIVES. He gave me a half of an old pocket knife he found years ago. He believed it dates back to the 1860s era. He showed me a drawing of an old PATCH KNIFE but it had more of a chisel point, instead of what I see in searching. They were all pointed ends.
My question is do any of you have old pictures that you would post of Period knives of this & other eras?
Any help would be appreciated. I had kind of lost my enthusiasm & have not been doing much knife work. I have a couple of projects just sitting. My friend has some old woods that he will slab for scales & handles.
The other question I have is does anyone have any ideas on how a person could use dried pieces of Mammoth Ivory? A lot of these pieces are curved, splintered etc. Is there a way to rejuvenate or soften?
Sorry for the long post & several questions. I'm just getting back my interest.
 
Glad your going to start.I would say the first thing you need to do is to determine which era you might like to make.You could chose from the late 1700's (Revolutionary War and early Indian) ,Mountain Man styles,Frontier, Civil War,etc. etc.You can then google up info on that era and you can always find re-enactor supplies and photos etc.I'll put a couple of sites below.

As far as Mamoth Ivory pieces, I have used them to accent sheaths, made concho's, inlay's etc.

Good luck ,Dave

http://jmcknives.blademakers.com/


http://www.flayderman.com/
 
Thanks so much Dave for the sites. I'm thinking the Mountain Man era. But may be interested in doing work in a few different periods. Knife making for me is a hobby. I donate many of my pieces to good causes, for raffles, drawing etc. I sell a few from time to time. I also give them to friends. It is a passion not a lively hood. The biggest thrill for me was I won a BEST of SHOW award (DISPLAY) in a craft & art show in a small town in Southern Nevada one year with my knives. Never sold one piece but was so excited to be recognized by other craft & art people. Some are well known in Nevada.

Craig
 
Here are some places to start researching the actual knives and sheaths of the American West pre-1899.

- "Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook" - has scale drawings of knives well dated from the 1500's to the 1800's – a real cheap source of actual knives used in the past

- “American Knives, The First History And Collector's Guide"
Harold L. Peterson

- "The Knife In Homespun America And Related Items"
Grant, Madison

- "American Primitive Knives 1770-1870"
Minnis, Gordon

- “The Bowie Knife Book”
Norm Flayderman

- “Bowie Knives and Bayonets of the Ben Palmer Collection”
Ben Palmer

- “Bowie Knives”
Robert Abels

- “Early Knives & Beaded Sheaths of the American Frontier”
John Baldwin

- “Peacemakers”
R. L. Wilson

- “The Skinning Knife”
M. H. Cole

- "Firearms, Traps, and Tools of the Mountain Men"
Carl P Russell

These are just a start and some may be out of print so use your local Interlibrary Loan to obtain them: there are many other books on the general time period/subject one chooses (i.e. Rev War, Mtn Man, Civil War) as well with several or maybe just one or two knives included, magazine articles, auction catalogs and websites (e.g. Cowans, Apache Junction, Butterfields, Greg Martin, etc., museum catalogs and websites (e.g. BBHC.org, Splendid Heritage, Autry Nat’l Center, etc.) all have good examples of actual period knives & sheaths and IMO are worth the time spent searching.

Some recommendations and thoughts on building period knives:
I’m a firm believer that when making a period repro to use the materials and methods used in the past as much as possible when possible (on the other hand I have NOTHING against using some power machines because while our tools of today are different, power tools of various types similar to those used today were used). Also if you're interested in making actual period knives do the research and cross reference as much as possible with period resources. Be aware also that many vendors of perod knives call there products by period knives (i.e. scalper) and yet are nothing like the originals. Ones choice in making period knives can also include those pieces inspired by originals, but not actual copies and "fantasy" pieces - a non-derogatory term used by makers for those pieces that have a period look, but are more based on the imagination of the maker rather than actual works of the past. All choices have their own legitimate place in the grand scheme of things, but fantasy pieces (and I make them as well as replicas) should IMO be so noted.

1) Blade steels: based on a couple of dozen metallurgical tests done on period blades I've read over the years as well as steel making info from the "day", the most common steel used is most closely imitated today with one of the 1065-1070-1075-1080 simple hi-carbon steel series. The blades tended to be thin and were mostly through hardened not zone hardened and generally much softer than is the norm today. Tested blades go Rockwell C from the mid-40's (most of them) to the mid-50's. I prefer a bit harder dependent on the usage to around 56-58 RC.
FWIW - A knife maker using blades made by some one else (factory or custom made) is in fact period: Samuel Bell, a premiere maker of very recognizable Bowies had blades made in Germany, as well as Michael Price, famed maker of San Francisco Bowies, also imported knives as well as blades to use on his own knives

2) Handles were most often made with natural materials, although Gutta Percha, an early type of “plastic is also appropriate in the right time period:
a)Wood: maple, walnut, Indian rosewood, mesquite, and ebony are some of the period woods used. What type of wood to use will depend on the type of knife along with where, when, and by whom it was made. i.e. An English made bowie or butcher knife will not use mesquite or maple unless it was re-handled, a not uncommon situation.
b)Antler: Red stag, Sambar stag (Culpepper and Co is a good source at a reasonable price for Sambar), elk, whitetail deer, moose, and mule deer are all represented on existing period knives.
c)Bone: Just about any kind was used and some was “jigged”. Deer, bison, and cow are just some documented examples.

For the mountain man era the most common knives were:
1) Common Butcher knives - ala the Russell Green river but most often with 5 iron pins rather brass cutler's rivets which are a very late 19th Century product
2) Scalpers - both half and full tangs - while any knife could have been used for scalping, the scalper in period was a particular style albeit there were English models and French models - below are examples
Knife-comparison.jpg

3) Cartouche knives
4) Early Bowies - think Searles
 
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Hey Chuck.....That's got to be one of the best answers, I have ever read on any forum!! So nice, when a Pro like you Takes the time to explain this....Kudos to you Sir!! :)
 
Mr. Burrows, I agree with Frankallen, that is one heck of a response. Lots of details I didn't know in there. Thank you kindly!

I'm no expert on period knives but they dang sure are cool.
 
Ya'll are most welcome and if you have any questions ask away and I'll help ir I can.

As to my first post - I;ve learned to keep answers from othe places handy - sure helps on the typing!
 
Mr Burrows,

Thanks you so much for your wonderful post. I have learned over the years that if you ask most knife makers are more than willing to help. I appreciate your response. I know it will be a great help.

Craig
 
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